Reef keeping laws.

[GreshamH]

Welcome to my world, I live in Santa Cruz, California.

Hope you took my last post as tongue in cheeck, I come from a fishing family

BTW, excellent post!!!

[kirei]

Vancouver use to have lots of great sport fishing, my father was a guide for the tyee (not tyree) salmon off the coast of Vancouver, held a record for a 90lbs salmon, now the annual record is always under 50... But at least we can still sport fish.

Someone tell me how outlawing sport fishing has anything to do with sustainability considering the effects of commercial fishing? Thanks PETA way to put your minds to use.

[GreshamH]

"fish feel pain" was their campaign. It started here in the USA in the last few years. http://www.fishinghurts.com/ . Makes me want to start "fish taste good"

[kirei]

Ha, fish feel pain... how could they possible know that? Did you see the south park where they showed the PETA members "co habitating" with animals? I really can't stand people who are up in my face about pets and reefs and stuff like that. I mean, okay fish feel pain... but so do the 3million people dying everyday about starvation, go deal with that problem first. I think in many ways we have become to liberal and obsessive about the small things and really miss the big picture. The problem with politics is that it causes interference with good old economics, you get the loudest, most annoying group with the best marketing making the policies... oh well this thread sort of got derailed...sorry.

I am in marketing BTW, ha... I figured if anyone is going to propagandize and corrupt it should be me. My girlfriend is in advertising too, at her school there is a design and arts stream (painting, photography, etc), who are all quite... left wing. So on buy nothing day they wen't down to the mall dressed as sheep and protested. So I went down with a bucket of red paint and threw it on them yelling FUR IS MURDER... it was a blast (most of these people know me so I didn't get my but whooped).

[GreshamH]

Now that is funny, got any pictures of the event

[knowse]

Originally posted by jabloomf1230
You might all want to take a look at this report:

The State of Coral Reef Ecosystems of the United States and Pacific Freely Associated States: 2005

http://ccma.nos.noaa.gov/ecosystems/...l_report_2005/

It's got a lot of interesting information on US coral reefs, including things that stress the reef and trends in reef health and water quality.

Just sos everyone understands, the good ol' US of A, is the only country where the juicing of fish for capture is leagal. I didn't find that in this report, but I only did a quicky skim job on it.

[GreshamH]

Tiss true. Florida gives permits for the use of quinaldine for the capture of MO. Apperently some Americans can't use nets, or they're simpy to lazy to use a more effective tool

[AJ31655]

So I e-mailed Ed Case (the Hawaiin Rep. who introduced the Coral Reef Protection Act of 2005). And got a response today, which I thought was pretty impressive since not being a Hawiian resident I really wasn't expecting one. Anyways heres the response I got.

September 15, 2005
Mr. Alan Mickelson
Via E-mail

Dear Mr. Mickelson:

Thank you for your comments on my Coral Reef Conservation and
Protection Act of 2005.

I assure you that I am not trying to make scapegoats of responsible
marine aquarists. Your hobby demonstrates that you have a keen
appreciation of the wonder of our oceans, and you certainly have a
beautiful aquarium.

I am worried, however, that many of our coral reefs are being
loved or fished to death. I would like to see less commercial
exploitation of the world's natural reefs and more focus on
culturing live rock and reproducing reef fish through aquaculture.
Hawaii's Oceanic Institute, for example, has developed the
necessary technology to breed and raise yellow tangs and flame
angelfish and others are producing seahorses and other products.

With aloha,




ED CASE
United States
Congressman
Hawaii,
Second District


What I sent him.

Rep. Case,

I am writing in regards to the Coral Reef Conservation and Protection Act of 2005. While I agree with the general idea that certain marine fish and invertebrates should not be imported for use in the marine ornamentals trade, I feel that there are other industries that have a much more urgent need for regulation. The curio trade should by far be the first and foremost concern of anyone looking to protect our valuable coral reef habitats. While recently at a local craft shop I noticed dried seahorses for sale, about 20 of them, right next to which sat about 50 dried starfish of various species, also included in the display were many giant sea fans. Quite frankly I was disgusted. After leaving the first thing that came to mind was this bill. It seems as though we marine aquarists are being used as scape goats, why would you seek to regulate us, who go to such extreme measures to keep our beloved fish alive healthy and happy, over an industry who's sole goal is to kill, dry, and sell the dead remains of these beautiful animals? I realize that the bill may have the noblest of intentions behind it, but there are other far more urgent issues facing the coral reefs than the commercial trade in marine ornamentals. I also feel that some parts of the bill are quite inaccurate. The most blatant of which is the idea that explosives are used to collect fish for the aquarium. This is a practice used in fishing for the food trade, it would be worthless as a practice for the ornamental trade, dredging is a similar case. Also the idea that more than half of our fish are caught with cyanide is quite a high number, while, sadly, this may have been true at a point in the not to distant past, it is unlikely that you would find this number today. As for the point of regulation in the trade, education would be a much more effective approach to the issue. As an employee of a store that carries marine livestock, I feel that many, many issues that are facing our industry today could be solved through education, not only of the hobbiest but also of the retail and wholesale facilities. I work very hard to keep a loss rate on our marine livestock that is below %5, allot of this is accomplished though responsible and informed ordering from our wholesalers. The retail stores I see that have loss rates higher than ours are usually staffed by uneducated employees who understand little about the animals they are selling. Perhaps a mandatory training program for all retail stores and wholesale facilities who wish to sell marine ornamentals, or incentive programs to develop means of raising more species in captivity, would be a better idea. The great majority of us do care greatly about the animals that we import to keep in our home aquariums, but like every other industry there are bad apples. There are also much greater threats to our coral reefs than the marine ornamental trade, the food fishing industry, and the curio trade, that deals in dead, dried reef animals, are many times more damaging, and environmental factors such as coastal development and recreational use cause even more damage yet, not to mention the mass bleaching events caused by ocean warming.

I have attached a photo of my little piece of the Pacific, it is my pride and joy, I would hate to see this hobby that millions enjoy as much as I do lost because it became to cost prohibitive due to regulation.

Thank you for your time,
Alan Mickelson

[Marc Daniels]

My 2 cents on PETA:
From http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaKillsAnimals.cfm
PETA's Dirty Secret

Hypocrisy is the mother of all credibility problems, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) has it in spades. While loudly complaining about the "unethical" treatment of animals by restaurant owners, grocers, farmers, scientists, anglers, and countless other Americans, the group has its own dirty little secret.

PETA kills animals. By the thousands.

From July 1998 through the end of 2004, PETA killed over 12,400 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of the animals it took in during 2003 alone. And its angel-of-death pattern shows no sign of changing.



On its 2002 federal income-tax return, PETA claimed a $9,370 write-off for a giant walk-in freezer, the kind most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream storage. But animal-rights activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. So far, the group hasn't confirmed the obvious -- that it's using the appliance to store the bodies of its victims.

In 2000, when the Associated Press first noted PETA's Kervorkian-esque tendencies, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk complained that actually taking care of animals costs more than killing them. "We could become a no-kill shelter immediately," she admitted.

PETA kills animals. Because it has other financial priorities.

PETA raked in nearly $29 million last year in income, much of it raised from pet owners who think their donations actually help animals. Instead, the group spends huge sums on programs equating people who eat chicken with Nazis, scaring young children away from drinking milk, recruiting children into the radical animal-rights lifestyle, and intimidating businessmen and their families in their own neighborhoods. PETA has also spent tens of thousands of dollars defending arsonists and other violent extremists.

PETA claims it engages in outrageous media-seeking stunts "for the animals." But which animals? Carping about the value of future two-piece dinners while administering lethal injections to puppies and kittens isn't ethical. It's hypocritical -- with a death toll that PETA would protest if it weren't their own doing.

PETA kills animals. And its leaders dare lecture the rest of us.

On another issue, PETA is totaly against the use of animals for any medical testing, or for their use in the manufacturing of any medically realted items. They're against things such as insulin....

"PETA Senior Vice President Mary Beth Sweetland on her use of insulin, which was tested on animals:

“I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products—and I have no qualms about it … I’m not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don’t see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals.� —Glamour, January 1990

So it's okay for her to use the medicine, derived from animals, to keep her alive because as Mary Beth (and PETA) sees it she is using her life to benefit animals.

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

Gotta love it!

[EnglishRebel]

Marc
I totally agree - I read that same horrifying story (I have a cat so I was very upset with PETA).
In the same vein
From the New York Post

October 5, 2005 -- IF you took your kid fishing this summer, there are animal rights people who are saying you are a bad parent.
The fact that the folks at PETA think that way is no shock, but they are trying to get at you through your kids, which is totally unacceptable.

PETA supporters began passing out graphic flyers to youngsters on Sept. 24, a day celebrated by sportsmen as National Hunting and Fishing Day but recognized by antis as Fish Amnesty Day.

The flyer says "Your Daddy Kills Animals" and tells your children to ask your daddy why he's hooked on killing.

PETA...

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by kirei
Sorry being from Vancouver originally, the heartland of left wing wackjobs..

Does any of this ranting about politics, PETA, etc have a point?
Does it relate to reefkeeping?

Or are you just advancing your personal agenda?

Your hate filled political rants I find quite distasteful.
Perhaps we can speak to concerns regarding reefkeeping - not your personal views on non-reefkeeping related matters?

[emoutz]

Dont you think that requiring aquaculture is a good thing? Why take additional specimens from the wild when people can breed them?

[CastleRock]

News flash if PETA has there way there will be NO pets at all that includes our reefs right down to a gold fish!
Dont be fooled by the PETA BS there not helping anyone or anything but there pockets! its all about the money
They killed over 85% of the animals they took in last year
Look it up, PETA is a huge scam always has been always will be.

Originally posted by macman7010
The reality of this is that progressive movement that you think needs to be "checked" is a standing of american values and morality. Without the EPA or PETA there would be little in the way of large corporations and private people destroying all our natural resources. There are some reefkeeping laws that need to be in place, and keeping certain fish and inverts, etc that are doomed in captivity should be totally outlawed.

[silentshawn]

i agree, i work for a "non-profit" company and is just a huge pyramid scam. all the money is at the top the CEO, ect. and only what is the bare neccessity gets the to programs they run so they can continue getting the state grants.

[silentshawn]

and it doesn't suprise me that more "non Profits" work the same way, they find a way to get money and exploit what ever that happens to be, to maintain funding.

[knowse]

Originally posted by emoutz
Dont you think that requiring aquaculture is a good thing? Why take additional specimens from the wild when people can breed them?

No. Requiring Mariculture will only degrade the reefs further. It's been mentioned a few time in this thread "why" it would hurt the reefs. Just go read it, it's there.