Rain Water

[Opsanus]

I'm increasingly uncomfortable with using RO unit, wasting 7 gallons for every gallon I use. I know, I know, I could store the waste water and use it to water plants, etc. but frankly I don't have enough uses for all that water!
So...
I've been considering collecting rainwater for use in my tanks. Everyone I've spoken to has the same knee-jerk reaction, ie "no way, not with MY fish, there's pollution, etc" but when pressed, nobody seems to have any solid evidence that there are lots of dangerous compounds in rainwater, especially outside of urban, smoggy areas. I am currenlty looking at a system that discards the rainwater for the first 10 minutes of a rain event, then begins storing it in a tank. Anyone have any solid experience here?

[TN_sledge]

Look at the trees in the Smoky Mountains. You DO NOT have to be in an urban area to get bad crap in the air.

[DgenR8]

Hi Opsanus,
[welcome]

I don't have much science background to draw from, but the term "acid rain" jumps to mind.
I know that the atmosphere of this planet is not what it once was. My car gets dirty when it rains, not clean.
I can understand your reluctance to use an RO/DI given the waste ratio, but I don't think rain water is the answer.
BTW, if you are getting 7 gallons of waste to 1 gallon of purified water, you need to tune that unit. You can save about 3 gallons of that waste for each gallon of pure water you produce.

[format32]

A long time ago .... Long long time ago this was the number one way to keep the highly fragile (for the time) Discus fish. Rain water was it.......... I am pretty sure with the way things are now it would not be advised. Too bad since I live in Portland, Oregon.

[iSpeakWhale]

I wonder what the TDS reading would be on rainwater. I know how bad the air can be. I've driven down to LA from SJ a few times and on your way down that hill to LA you can see all these grey smog in the air. Knowing that I wouldn't even touch rainwater at all.

[PRC]

First, like DgenR8 says, if you're losing 7G's for every one you get out of your RO unit, it's in serious need of tuning. Should be more like 3-4G waste /G.
As far as using rainwater goes, the reason I won't use anything but RODI water in my tank is because I know exactly what's in it (pretty much nothing but water), any other source is suspect. If you don't know what's in the rainwater from one rain to the next, you're taking your chances every time you use it. You could get it tested, but who's to say it's going to be the same the next time it rains? To me, it's just not worth the chance of killing everything in my tank.

[clickrs]

What about buying Distilled water from Wal-Mart @.58 that's not to bad.
Good Luck.
Cindy

[tacocat]

Opsanus, I would avoid it. Rainwater absorbs Hydrogen Sulfur gas from emissions, thus producing weak amounts of H2SO4, the primary acid found in acid rain.

In addition, to chemical issues, there is a problem with biological contamination. Rainwater contains many mold, algae, protists, and bacteria have spores as part of their reproductive cycles. If you are interested, you should make a TPC agar plate and let rainwater drip directly on it.

For you I would recommend a professional DI unit from Ionics ($$$$) or the Kold-Steril unit (recoomended by well-water reefers).

[PRC]

This issue has been discussed a lot out here. I'm not certain, but I'd imagine there's a fair amount of wastewater generated in the distillation process as well. And probably chemicals to clean the equipment and trucks to bring those wonderful plastic bottles to the store...
As far as the DI solutions go, if you put water with a significant amount of dissolved solids through DI without using RO first you'll burn through DI resin so fast it'll make your head spin, and your wallet very light. Then of course there's all those materials consumed (and produced) processing DI resin.
It would be nice if there were a better, more efficient way to get reliably clean water. If there were though, I don't think RO would be nearly as popular as it is.

[scubadude]

Originally posted by iSpeakWhale
I wonder what the TDS reading would be on rainwater.

I have collected rain water and it was 0 TDS, now that doesnt mean ALL rainwater has 0 TDS. Im sure it has alot to do with the way its collected and the location. FWIW I know of someone in Mexico that has a coral propagation farm and uses rainwater for his topoff with no problems thus far. I might try and get him in on this pow wow.

[whosjohnny]

I live in LA, man, that is not EVEN an OPTION! I'm very happy watching my RO/DI w/ Silicate Maximma work and let the "orange" waste water go right to the BUSH that I hate to water. DANG lucky bushes.

[Spenda75]

I wouldn't reccomend using rain water for the same reason that everyone else does: pollution. Now you make think that perhaps in a more remote area you wouldn't have to worry about that but pollution can still affect even those places. Unlike humans fish can't tolerate hardly any jumps in pH and it just doesn't sound like a good idea to use rain water. The only way that I think you could get away with using rain water is if you a) checked the pH and b) if you treated the water to get rid of any pollution so that it was safe for the fish. If you accomplished these two things then and only then would I say go for it. Best of luck!

[Naturlis]

How do you tune a RO unit???

[dinoman]

Another one for not to do it. It is my understanding that for a raindrop to form it needs something to collect on (something like condensing nuclie is the offical term). This something can be a variety of things: bacteria, dirt/dust, salts, pollution, ect. Anyway you cut it, it still results in "unpure" water.
Second thing is that just because your in a remote area doesn't mean that "pollutants" aren't in the air. I actually watch a show where they were tracking dust blown off the Sahara desert in Africa. Anyway somehow they tracked this dust cloud across the Atlantic where it eventually ended up on the U.S. eastern seaboard. The fact of the matter is that pollutants can travel 1,000's of miles, even across oceans.

Personally I would feel safer using tap water than rainwater (well plus there is no way I could possibly collect enough rain here since it often goes months without raining).

-Dino-

[Piccru Ponios]

The solution is simple, if you're really interested in saving water.

Collect the rain water and then send the rain water through your RO unit.

The water coming out of your tap is nothing but treated rain water anyway.

You could collect the rainwater, and, in a simple system, pressurize the holding container with a pump. Then send the water through the RO unit. If you're really commited, you could build a fine system for pretty cheap.

[Reefmedic79]

Originally posted by Opsanus
I'm increasingly uncomfortable with using RO unit, wasting 7 gallons for every gallon I use.

Your ratio is way off, in case it matters you should only be losing 3-4 gallons for every 1 of filtered water.

[kenny77]

why not buying waltmart RO water? it is cheap

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by kenny77
why not buying waltmart RO water? it is cheap

Cheap is not always good. How do you know the quality of Walley's RO water? It could be as bad as, or even worse than tap water. If you're buying RO water, you really should have a TDS meter to monitor the quality. If you're driving back and forth to pick up RO water from Walley world, and buying a TDS meter to check it, and going through the pain of lugging it home in buckets, you should just save yourself some time and energy and buy a unit of your own.

[Piccru Ponios]

Also, if walmart is making ro water, they're likely wasting as much as the original poster.

[mvandepeer]

Originally posted by dinoman
Another one for not to do it. It is my understanding that for a raindrop to form it needs something to collect on (something like condensing nuclie is the offical term). This something can be a variety of things: bacteria, dirt/dust, salts, pollution, ect. Anyway you cut it, it still results in "unpure" water.

-Dino-

Actually rain is formed when water vapor in the atmosphere hits a fully saturated point... air at 50 degrees holds "x" amount of water where the warmer the air the more water it can hold... when the air temp drops..ie cold front/warm front... the cooler air cant hold as much water so it results in rain....
That probably isn't the best and most accurate way to explain it but it is close.... he he he


I'm up in minnesota and in the winter air pollutants are much lower... could I use snow? if it isn't yellow of course!!!!! LMAO

[dinoman]

mvandepeer

Thanks for correcting me, there is a good reason I'm not a meteorologist. Just wondering then why they can "cloud seed" if it instead based on temperature and saturation points?

-Dino-

[PRC]

dinoman, you were actually correct. Raindrops typically form around particles. mvandepeer is also correct, but droplets usually condense around an initial particle. That is how cloud seeding works, but you do also, of course, have to have the right atmospheric conditions.

[dinoman]

...one of those both right at the same time things!

-Dino-

[mvandepeer]

Works for me dinoman!!!! LOL I guess we both learned something new!!!

I'm still wondering about snow usage.....not the yellow kind of course.