Lost All Fish..help Me Understand

johnny deluxe · #1 10/02/2006, 01:51 PM

Hi there...and thanks for reading here is my Saga

I have a 150 gallon fish only tank, I had 4 tangs, sail,naso,purple, blue and a Emp Angel and small clown all recently die of ich...I had the tank running with a wetdry,skimmer and uv for 5 years, never an issue, water parameters fine...meaning salt, ph,acidity

Suddenly the emp angel got ich, I started with the kick-ich product and within two weeks all of my fish except a goby and pair of Coral Banded shrimp were dead..All of my parameters were good..monthly water changes were happening and constant monitoring..

2 things happened that may have played a factor...1. becuase my tank has a big wooden hood it gets pretty hot, I added to small fans, but the tank still would rise to 80 degrees during the day and 77 or so at night.. (but it had been this way)

Also...Probably the worst thing i did, thinking my fish were invincible as I had had them so long on a varied diet with lots of greens, was throw in several small crabs I found in the Florida Keys...

could it have been the temp or the crabs (the crabs went in to the tank a month or so before this)

WHAT A DEPRESSING, AND COSTLY ERROR...I just changed another 30 gallons of water and took all the coral heads(skeletons) out to dry in the sun....I have a goby and the 2 shrimp, I have removed the crabs...

Should I have added a chiller, was it the crabs, where do I go from here..I cant drain the tank and filter as I would kill the bacteria and remaining life...will the parasites pass with time...Has anyone had a situation lossing all there fish...what can I learn for the next time

thanks

Andy

maro1 · #2 10/02/2006, 02:11 PM

I have had a similar situation on a smaller scale a couple of years ago.

Your best bet is to let the tank stand and run without fish in it for 4 to 6 weeks that should take care of the ich.

Where did it come from? Not sure. it could have road in on the crabs. That seems like the most likely possibility. You could search this site for all kinds of info on ich. but let your tank run without fish for 4-6 weeks.

Mar

ctreefer · #3 10/02/2006, 02:25 PM

Also, check your UV bulb just to make sure it didn't burn out. When I had my old setup (overstocked way back when i was a kid), ich was the sign my UV bulb had burned out.

Billybeau1 · #4 10/02/2006, 02:48 PM

I would rule out temperature. Many people keep their tanks at 79-80

Could you see the white spots on all of the fish that died ?

46bfinGA · #5 10/02/2006, 03:03 PM

how is ich a sign that the uv bulb is burned out?many tanks including myself run without uv at all.ive never (thank god) had ich in my tank.i doubt uv had anything to do with it,the crabs would be more likely to have exposed the fish to something.sorry for your loss,hopefully you have success in the future.

ctreefer · #6 10/02/2006, 03:36 PM

46bfin, I think in my case, I had an overstocked tank on the brink of failing and the UV was the only thing holding it together. JMO. This was way back when before the internet and all the useful info here.

broncomike · #7 10/02/2006, 03:38 PM

My knowledge of ich is that it does not live with inverts. I maybe wrong in saying that, but I am close to 100% that ich cannot host with inverts. Ich never kills corals, etc. Are you sure that it was ich?

Sk8r · #8 10/02/2006, 04:18 PM

As I understand it, uv bulbs have to be changed ever 6 months: they can go on shining, but have lost what makes them effective. Am I wrong in this?

maro1 · #9 10/02/2006, 04:27 PM

How did we get on the subject of UV'S? The guy never said he had one!

Ich does not host with inverts! But it does have a stage that attaches itself to objects. Not To HOST. To continue to develop to the next stage.

M

maro1 · #10 10/02/2006, 04:28 PM

yes he said he had one, My mistake!

M

broncomike · #11 10/02/2006, 04:29 PM

Um, first paragraph...UV is stated.

maro1 · #12 10/02/2006, 04:30 PM

Way ahead of ya Mike

M

johnny deluxe · #13 10/02/2006, 08:46 PM

Yes..all the fish started to display white spots, some fish covered, others only on the fins and then progressing from there....Someone mentioned to let the tank sit without fish for 4-6 weeks, however I still have a goby and a mated pair of Coral Banded shrimp......what else should I be doing at this point...just waiting? monthly water changes? any advice appreciated

ANDY-JD

english83 · #14 10/02/2006, 10:43 PM

I'm not sure with SW and UV yet. But in the reptile world they should be changed every 6 months. Even if they are still working the UV coating has worn so it's just another light without any benefits.

stykthyn · #15 10/03/2006, 12:15 AM

ich cannot survive on inverts. you most likely have always had it in your tank, but at very low levels where healthy fish can resist it. most tanks do. one of your fish may have become ill or stressed, whatever the reason, the ich was able to take hold. most likely a nitrate spike(I have found this to be the most common reason). I had this happen in my tank after my 5 year old son feed an entire flat of mysis to my tank one day. I had a healthy purple tang go south quick and the other fish werent far behind. let the tank run fallow for a month or two and then try again. sorry to hear about your loss

emperior911 · #16 10/03/2006, 02:27 AM

I Agree, ich is in almost everyones tank. when the fish gets stressed they get ich easier. a heathy fish may never get ich or have a very mild case of it for a short time.

same with humans, when we get stressed.. our immune system goes down... we get sick

this is just a theory, but i do believe it's true from lots of experence.

Freed · #17 10/03/2006, 02:32 AM

Oh my G! Not another one of those "ich is in every tank" crapp threads.

BTTRFLYGRL · #18 10/03/2006, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freed
Oh my G! Not another one of those "ich is in every tank" crapp threads.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

Ich is a parasite, it MUST HAVE A HOST OR IT WILL DIE...
Stressed fish will NOT get ich if ich is NOT present..Its not a cold

Back to the thread topic...You need to remove the Goby or the ich will remain in the tank. Leave your tank fallow for 6+ weeks

were you testing your water while treating ? Kick ic and these other so called 'reef safe' meds are worthless...didn't kill the ich but probably killed everything else

johnny deluxe · #19 10/03/2006, 06:42 AM

thanks again

2 of you suggested to leave my tank "fallow" for 6 weeks...whats fallow???

ANDY

stykthyn · #20 10/03/2006, 06:47 AM

empty

broncomike · #21 10/03/2006, 09:55 AM

I would set up a QT tank for the remaining fish. A rubbermaid container works best. Just something that will hold them. You can get them 1.5 inches thick. Get some zip ties and add a heater and some type of hang on filter. You can even throw an airstone in there.You can't add copper to the QT because it will kill the inverts. So just move them and ride it out. I agree with what everyone has said. Just let your tank cycle and do a water change every week for about 6 weeks. It doesn't have to be anything crazy; 10%, 15%, 20% at a time. After you do this for six weeks, just let it sit for another two weeks. Keep it cycling the whole time as if you had fish in there. Do a little research on the lifecycle of ich. You will find that if it does not have a host, it will die off. No fish=no host=no ich. Then you will be able to move the fish back into the display.

doggiestlist · #22 10/03/2006, 09:56 AM

im truly sorry for your loss. as for reasoning alone for the paresitic infestation fish always have these parasites but are not always present to the neked eye..fish only become a victom to these little pest under 2 conditions stress and a weakened imune system. in most cases stress can result in a weakened imune system.diet is also a main key factor in keeping these fish's healthy enough to not be overcome by they these parasites..although a fish can seam healthy for a long period of time these paresites live in the gill tissue of the fish when the fishes natural imune system is too weak to help combat the investation the ich becomes overpopulated and then spreads to the rest of the fish .i have found it to be very helpful to boost the fishes natural imune system with added feeding of nutrient enriched prepaired foods and added vit .such as thera+A pellets garlic extreme and selcon.in 5 yrs of this hobby i have not lost any fish to this paresite by boosting each ones natural imune system..how ever in some cases the infection was too much for food alone to combat and had to go with stronger faster treatments such as using coppersafe in one of my distplay tanks (no inverts)..once a fish decides it not going to eat its time to act fast . as for diet i have done extencive research on each of my fishes natural diet and have done my best to duplicate it.. again im sorry for your loss

Freed · #23 10/03/2006, 01:42 PM

So if "stress" is a major contributing factor for the always present ich on a fish blooming into a major epidemic then why weren't my orange spot rabbitfish, six line wrasse, purple chromis and my copper band butterfly covered in ich within a week after my rabbitfish jumped out of the tank and was laying on the concrete basement floor for 5 minutes until I found him and put him back in the tank? That would surely be enough to cause a major outbreak of the ich right? Even though all my fish in that tank went through hypo in QT when ich was noticed on them in QT right? I mean even hypo, which is known to kill all ich after at least 4-6 weeks would surely have just sprouted out of the concrete and attached to the rabbitfish right? Or would have at least multiplied from the gills and covered everything in the tank after knowing the fish was "stressed" from being on the concrete for 5 minutes, right?

BTTRFLYGRL · #24 10/03/2006, 03:51 PM

Oh Freed, Your crackin me up

Doggielist..
I don't know where your info comes from, but it is totally false. Now Flukes on the other hand, can be present in small numbers without harming the fish..A well cared for aquarium and healthy fish can live with this parasite present in small numbers.. Flukes will often become a problem in an improperly cared for tank, where fish are unhealthy and stressed..Overpopulation will also help spread Flukes.

Ich in an aquarium will kill. It is a parasite and if it is present it will reproduce and infest all the fish eventually if left untreated.. It does not lie dormant in the gills or the sand or anywhere else. If all the fish are removed, treated with Hypo or Copper the fish will be ich free...If the tank is left fallow, the ich has no host so the ich will die.

Ich is really not difficult to eradicate if the proper treatment is done...

Okay....that is all

emperora · #25 10/03/2006, 06:57 PM

correct me if i'm wrong ,but the ich alone is not the major cause of death ,but the secondary infection caused by the ich .