What do those Reefer Madness corals REALLY look like? - Page 2

sirrus6 · #26 11/26/2006, 09:46 PM

I think that somehow this thread has devolved into an RM bashing session, which was very far from my intent with my initial post. Quite the opposite actually; my experiences with RM have been exceedingly positive, as good as with any other vendor.

To respond to a few inquiries: I live in a small town w/o a dedicated LFS (there is a Petco and one local pet store that carries some salt water livestock). Therefore, I am limited to online vendors for dry goods and livestock. I have purchased from many online vendors, and have never been disappointed in any way with RM. I could not make that statement about all the vendors I have worked with.

I do not use actinics. Just out of curiosity, I once replaced my 10K 400 W bulbs with 20K ones to see what the corals would look like. They do look a little brighter (fluorescent pigments kicking in?), but otherwise not particularly different.

My RM corals are thriving; among the fastest growing in my tank. In addition, none have "browned out" after 3 - 6 months in residence. The hyacinthus is peach colored, very similar to the original RM pic (not shown). The latistella is green bodied with purple tips (my pic fails to illustrate this color scheme- an endorsement for Photshop as a tool to display what the eye sees, rather than what the camera captures??). The sarmentosa is a rich green with overtones of blue, and pinkish tips. These colors have stabilized.

I did not expect the corals to match the colors displayed on the RM Web site for all of the reasons Chris describes (highlighted in my first post). What I did expect was that the corals would arrive healthy (they did), and that they would color up to whatever color scheme is supported by the specific parameters of my tank/lighting. One of the fascinating aspects of the whole coral husbandry hobby for me is to see how a coral adapts to my local tank conditions.

I posted in order to show, via pictures, how one set of RM corals adapted; all too often, these RM-focused threads contain evaluative comments ("my coral coloration did/did not meet my expectations") without any data (i.e., pictures).

I think that the bottom line has been expressed by others; use vendors that you can trust, and recognize that coral coloration will adapt to local conditions.

Ken

LobsterOfJustice · #27 11/26/2006, 10:00 PM

Chris seems to be a great guy, and I apprecieated the freebies thrown in with the order, but what it boils down to is that my colors didnt hold:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ustice/A-1.jpg
to
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/100_0753.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ustice/A-2.jpg
to
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/100_0832.jpg

onehundred20 · #28 11/26/2006, 10:19 PM

the best way to keep colors imo is to buy aquacultured stuff, or buy from someone who has the coral and it proves to hold its color, unless you can replicate the ocean I wouldnt bother with to much wild stuff unless you can see it in person first

my LFS gets wild stuff in now but I wont touch it till its been in the store for about 2 months, then if its healthy and colorful i may buy it.

MammothReefer · #29 11/26/2006, 10:39 PM

I know this is going to come off blunt, but this thread is JUST silly.

There are SO many factors when it comes to taking a good photo the is holds true the to colours as shown to the visible eye, and thats just a small point of the issue.

1. RM photos are taken top down. If you have EVER turned off your pumps and looked down on your tank you'll know there is a MASSIVE colour diffrence between Top down, and looking threw the glass. We are talking NITE and Day.

2. We all know acros change colour (brown)when stressed, or under different lighting. Shipping can be stressfully and we don't know how long that from the time the photo was taken until you purchased the coral and received it.

3. Camera Gear. Diffrent gear, diffrent photo quality.

4. Camera Settings 2 words WHITE balance. Will change everything

5. Monitor settings when calibrating photo.

6. Tank lighting, we all know that a coral will look very different under different bulbs of the same colour spectrum let alone different bulb combination ie watts, number, ect ect..

7. Corals location to the light, if your like me and just have Halides, ever notice if you turn your coral after a while.. it will be all coloured up in some areas and not in others..

I can go on and on.... I can say from personal experience I've been to RM. I've seen the corals when they first get them in.. They do look like that.. whether or not they still do by the time they get to you...well thats another story..and whether or not you can get wild corals to hold there colour, well that has nothing to do with the vendor.

Covey · #30 11/26/2006, 10:51 PM

RM is in no way responable for how the corals turn out in the tank after even a short length of time.

Plain and simple buyer is responsable for the way there corals turn out in the end. Nutrient levels good or bad will cause changes in the coral apperence.

That being said I've ordered from them three times and only give them a "C+" if I where grading them. Some of my piece have turned out rather nice but they never looked like they did in the pics. Day 1, day 14, day 365. I have 400W 20K and some of the is less than 12" from the bulb so I should be getting close to what there pushing PAR-wise.

The bigger issue I had with them was them messing up orders. 1) Sending me a "freebie frag" indivdually bagged up only to match the crack on the frag to the colony I just got in the order with it. Its of more value attacted.

2) On two different orders ordering a WYSIWYG coral only to get it sub'd without asking. One time a humilius for a hulimus. The next a formosa for a robusta. WYSIWYG is only WYSIWYG if the right corals are sent. If thats not the case the photo and describtions are pointless.

That being said FED EX lost one of my shipment for 4 days something like $350 of coral. Chris covered it and sent me new replacements and I thank him for it.

Also when I started I never QT or dipped anything and I never got any parasites from RM.

I am even considering ordering from them again but I am only really interested in there tank raised stuff.

"Reefer Madness->Monti's Homegrown" How many times do you think the DEA went over that site

Treg · #31 11/26/2006, 10:58 PM

I just bought a couple frags from them awile back for my first time, frags tho.
My comparison photos arent exactly the same but you cant expect them to be... Still pretty colorful tho. I'm happy.
Camera and lighting are different. Shipping and acclimation stress. His looks to be top down where mine is thru the glass.

His:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...MD11034852.jpg

Mine:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Pink-Miili.jpg

MammothReefer · #32 11/26/2006, 11:18 PM

try shooting yours from the top down. i bet you'll get similar results.

BLKTANG · #33 11/26/2006, 11:22 PM

I have never ordered from RM,but is the story?

Is it that we cant keep the color up like RM?

Are they "beefin up" the colors?

Are these corals wild,or aquacultured?

ycnibrc · #34 11/26/2006, 11:50 PM

well I'm lucky that I can go to his place and pick out my own coral. So what i see is what i got. I saw his employee took the picture right in the holding tank and after that I don't really know if they enhance the color or not. But Chris is a great guy and his SPS collection are awesome just like you go to a wholesale place. I went there every Friday and I can't leave that place after hour and hour. He always give you head up regarding which coral you will have more chance to keep alive not selling you anything that you pick out.

RM is da bomb.

Anthony

melev · #35 11/27/2006, 04:26 AM

Here are two millepora, one shot from the front, one from above. They look different, as one person stated clearly.

http://melevsreef.com/pics/06/10/td_purple_milli.jpg
http://melevsreef.com/pics/06/11/blue_milli_1114.jpg

The fact is, the coral should look close to the same within 7 days of purchase, assuming your lighting is similar.

Water quality is another issue. Their water may be far more clean (especially if the tank is fish-free). Your best bet it to photograph what you receive from above, daily.

If you don't have actinics, you can't compare. Just using 10,000K bulbs made by Ushio, then XM, and then ReefLux will give you totally different looks. Heck, the Plus+ bulb will give you a lovely yellow acro, whether you like it or not.

I think the original poster did a good job trying to test his theories out, but the comparison simply isn't fair. Everything should be as similar as possible to get a real indication of WYSIWYG.

Hef · #36 11/27/2006, 07:45 AM

Anyone that knows anything about taking decent photos knows that just the slightest of adjustments in photo processing, can enhance a photo to make it look great.
I've been to one of the bigger vendors of SPS corals, (not RM). The colors simply dont pop when you are there in person.

RicksReefs · #37 11/27/2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8623671#post8623671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shawnts106
[B]Just curious, but WHO ON EARTH OWNS 1000watt 20,000K MH?

does 14,000K, 1000 watters count...

jeffyounggren · #38 11/27/2006, 09:29 AM

I am sorry I caught this a little late. I actually live in the South Bay and have purchased my corals at RM by picking them out of the tank. First, the display is spectacular and the colors that Chris gets are rare and radiant. So, I am sure that the photos are accurate and not doctored. Second, I am sure Chris is honorable and proud of his business and I trust he is not using Photoshop on the pictures. In fact, given the beautiful colors in his display, it is not necessary. Third, many of the corals I have purchased from Chris have lost a lot of their vibrant colors but I take the blame for that with my 250 watt system at 14K. I cannot afford the 1000 watt intensity he has and perhaps his water is better.

So, I have been there and have seen it. For those of you who doubt, come on over and look for yourself. I only wish I could get the coloration he does but I am working on it.

Jeff Younggren

poknsnok · #39 11/27/2006, 09:39 AM

ive gotten a lot from RM... all the colors are true or very close... I do nothing but 10k and actinic supplementation.. ive been happy with the corals and the service is second to none

1package · #40 11/27/2006, 11:42 AM

Just another opinion on the photo / RM thread.

The most recent order from RM was about 6 weeks ago. One piece was a large milli that was extremely colorful in the photo on the site and has never resembled anything close to that since I received it. Very hard to believe it is the same peice. I would suggest photo doctoring but ........ I had a blue tipped acro that I fragged for a friend, couple months later got it back, it looks different than the colony it came from. I also got 2 frags of the same millipora from him about 3 months apart - one is now blue the other is green, neither look identical to the parent colony.

Changes to my lights as well as my adjustments to alkalinity have made significant changes to color - who knows.

Aside from the color differences, the dealings with Chris at RM were great, could not ask for better customer service. One of the items was misplaced and they phoned to let me know, gave me a discount on a replacement. Order could not have been packaged better, no less than 5 bags, heat packs, free frags, shipped as requested, etc... A+.

SunnyX · #41 11/27/2006, 12:11 PM

TBH, all corals I received from RM have been exactly as pictured. Any coral that goes thru the stress of shipping is bound to lose some color. If you tank is not up to par then obviously the corals will change color quickly and not look as good.

I think that in some cases here the tanks were simply not up to the standards in order to maintain great color.

BLKTANG · #42 11/27/2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8627753#post8627753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
TBH, all corals I received from RM have been exactly as pictured. Any coral that goes thru the stress of shipping is bound to lose some color. If you tank is not up to par then obviously the corals will change color quickly and not look as good.

I think that in some cases here the tanks were simply not up to the standards in order to maintain great color.

Thats what i was thinking.

tacocat · #43 11/27/2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8623671#post8623671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shawnts106
Just curious, but WHO ON EARTH OWNS 1000watt 20,000K MH?

Me.

It's sitting in my office collecting dust.

BLKTANG · #44 11/27/2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8627879#post8627879 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Me.

It's sitting in my office collecting dust.

I have a ballast for a 1000w mh.

neyugn0w01 · #45 11/27/2006, 12:42 PM

This is a picture from RM
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...01/GlowRed.jpg

My camera and skills cannot replicate the picture. However it looks just like that in my tank. I would buy again for sure.

tacocat · #46 11/27/2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8627914#post8627914 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EXPEDITION
I have a ballast for a 1000w mh.

I have one of those also. In fact, I have a 1000w Radium bulb, the ballast and a lumenarc reflector.

This setup was particularly popular in the Bay Area a few years ago. There were a few reefers and shops who used this setup. They were able to express incredible colors out of their corals.

Often times, they were able to express colors that no other reefers could. I remember Jeff Littlefield could get his pink birdsnest corals to produce glowing blue tips.

Serioussnaps · #47 11/27/2006, 02:06 PM

This is why I have been reluctant to order from RM--------having my corals sent in a plane 2000 miles for the second or third time-------I KNOW AFTER THAT THEY ARENT GOING TO LOOK HOW I WANT THEM TO LOOK----at least not for a while

-this has nothing to do with RM, just the logisitics of shipping, not to mention the 1000 other variables we are looking at---

beating this over the head isnt going to do anything but bash a great vendor in our hobby, who does his best to spend time not only on our hobby, but even coming on RC and helping people

DONT LET YOUR GRANDIOSE EXPECTATIONS OF A CORAL THAT IS SHIPPED 1000 MILES AWAY HARM ONE OF OUR FEW GREAT VENDORS IN THIS BUSINESS----be smart enough to know that they arent going to look like they do in his tank for the 1000 reasons and not order from him for those reasons, but not for his alleged "evasive" business tactics, which by all accounts of those that have been to his store just dont go on

I am sure Chris, or any RM associates wont even touch this thread with a ten foot pole because of fear of being wrongly chastised, or banned from RC, which they have spent lots of time and effort building a great reputation. Despite the fact that I dont know him, I will stick up for him on this thread because I know he cant.

jay24k · #48 11/27/2006, 02:13 PM

I still think he over shopps his photos. That's just obvious. They do provide good nice corals but I would say 60% of the ones I received did not look as in picture and the others were just faded. I understand shipping does sometimes take a toll also. I've had a couple color up similiar but others like that bright red imo are just not that red. They might be a nice pretty red but I don't honestly think it looks like that. The same goes for the original poster. Those colors imo are unrealistic and while the corals are definetly nice, it really shows that the saturation on the photo is WAY off.

Still, they have the best CS out there. I personally liked the 20-30 frag packs. However, I'm scared to spend 100+ on a colony when there is a high chance it won't look like that no matter what I stick it under.

Lobster · #49 11/27/2006, 02:38 PM

I dont buy from RM because of their photos and their prices. Same with several other vendors. Sorry, but if I pay that kind of money for a coral, it better look exactly like the picture. I dont care if you use 1000W lights or you have a busted monitor. Ive ordered plenty of frags from other reefers and they always arrive at my door with the colors pictured. They dont turn brown in the mail overnight. If I ordered the coral in that first picture and it showed up the next day looking like the second picture, I'd be shipping it right back and disputing the charges with my credit card company. So I dont order.

Now, I'll gladly pay a high price for a coral if it is of a known lineage and from a good source (ie, purple monster frag from Atlantis). I wouldnt even need to see a picture in this case -- I already know exactly what I would be getting.

EmDy · #50 11/27/2006, 03:05 PM

let me get my 2cents in. I am fortunately work about 10mins from his store and 20mins from LA wholesaler. He boughts most of his corals from the vendor I go to so the color is way off. I was at his store 2wks ago and they are nothing the same as he has on the website.