What do those Reefer Madness corals REALLY look like?

[sirrus6]

From time-to-time in this forum, threads that introduce a striking coral from Reefer Madness are submitted. These threads often contain some concerns that there might be a disconnect between what the RM picture portrays and what the coral might actually look like. The issue of photo manipulation is inevitably raised, and Chris of RM responds, insisting that he is doing the best that he can to accurately portray the coral’s coloration in his Web depictions. He reminds readers that there are several factors that might contribute to the discordance between the posted pic and the actual coral in another tank, including (a) the viewing angle (top-down for the RM pics), (b) the light source and intensity (1000W 20K MH’s for RM pics), and (c) the viewing monitor (CRT for RM pics). Some representative exchanges follow:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...s&pagenumber=1

From Chris/RM:

“Two things to consider about our corals and how we represent them. First is that we prepare our photos on a CRT monitor and not a Lap Top or a LCD. We do this for two reasons, first is that a CRT monitor looks the same no matter what angle you are viewing the coral at, and because they have an average brightness/contrast output range the photos look reasonable on most monitors. But.... with these new and incredible CRT monitors coming out I am seeing problems with our photos. They look nuked, like we own stock in Photoshop! I am thinking that I have to remove saturation rather than leaving at zero in Photoshop. I just purchased a Samsung 931B and it is insane. I turned down the brightness and contrast by 30 percent because my website looked like a cartoon.”

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...reefer+madness

From cwegescheide:

There is NO WAY that stag is that red... FWIW that pic looks VERY photoshoped to me.. Also I've ordered stuff from RM before and i got several corals that didn't look NEAR the picture. Some were but most weren't Several didn't color up and a few RTN'd

Chris/RM response:

“Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. I sometimes lose focus and I forget that all monitors are different. I try to matchup the coral to what I see in our system as well as how it appears on my monitor. I am not trying to deceive anyone. Over contrast is a problem as we are taking photos of our corals from above.

I have to check myself all the time because the 1000 watters make everything glow and I forget that most folks don't have this intense of lighting. They are about 2 and half feet above the water but that is still much more intense than most home lighting systems.

I am not sure I am helping my cause here, but at least I am aware of it and I will tone it down so that the monitors that are really bright will not look quite so nuclear. But in my defense if anyone has a chance to come by my warehouse you can see that it is this red and my corals do have this intensity.”

Finally, my point:

I have purchased three wild acropora colonies from RM over the past 6 months. In an effort to add some data to these types of speculative discussions, I have requested and received permission from RM to post their Web pics of these corals, and I have kept a photographic journal of their adaptation to my tank. The photos shown below are my attempt to show what some RM corals “really” look like in a non-RM tank.

My tank specs: 400 W 10K XM’s; salinity 36 ppt; [Ca] = 400 ± 20 ppm; [Mg] = 1400 ± 100 ppm; [alk] = 4.3 ± 0.2 meq/L; pH 8.15 – 8.35; no measurable A/N/N/P; T = 81 ±0.5 oF.

All photos are taken through the front glass with no additional flash/lighting using a Canon Powershot 500 with standard factory settings. All pics are displayed “as is”, with no digital manipulation.

Some fine points: Using an Apogee quantum light meter, the following light intensities were recorded.

A. latistella: 250 – 350 uE/M2, moderate current.

A. hyacinthus: 250 – 350 uE/M2, strong current (~ 9” in front of a Tunze, but about 6” off-line to the left)

A. sarmentosa: 200 – 250 uM/M2, weak-to-moderate current.

The pics:

a. sarmentosa, RM Web pic
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...Sarmentosa.jpg

a. sarmentosa, new in my tank
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...mentosa-sm.jpg

a. sarmentosa, 1 month
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...sa-9-17-06.jpg

a. sarmentosa, 3.5 months
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...sarmentosa.jpg

a. lattistella, RM Web pic
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...lla_RM_pic.jpg

a. latistellsa, new in my tank
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...a-RM_-1-wk.jpg

a. latistella, 2.5 months
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...attistella.jpg

a. hyacinthus, RM pic of similar coral (I forgot to download my exact purchase pic, but it looked like the following, although a little more orange/peach colored than the pure pink shown)
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...hyacinthus.jpg

a. hyacinthus, new in my tank
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...hus-Apr-06.gif

a. hyacinthus, 4 months
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...cinthus-sm.jpg

All of the pics shown above except one appear (to me) to accurately depict the color of the coral as my eye perceives it. The singular and important exception is the a. latistella, which has a distinct mint-green coloration to the body and lavender tips. I could achieve this coloration in the pic only through Photoshop, but I have not posted that adulterated photo. In all cases, the corals are growing well, and I am very pleased with the whole transaction. The take-home message for me is that RM ships healthy corals whose striking coloration enhances the enjoyment of my tank. I recognize that when it comes to final coral coloration, the many variables involved make it a bit overly optimistic to expect a one-to-one correspondence between the Web pic and the final product in my tank. Hopefully, there are not too many unscrupulous vendors who take advantage of this fact with outrageous excercises in Photoshopping (and we know who those vendors are!).

Ken

[Shawnts106]

WOW~
I myself have wondered how RM is getting this UNBELIEVABLY colored corals, As I know the GREAT majority of Wholesalers.. and have seen their products* ... hum, interested find.

[PITSTOP]

My RM A. hyacinthus after 6 months in my tank - not quite blue tips...

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/IMG_0401.jpg

[reef 'n ale]

Out of maybe 3-4 pieces I've recieved from RM, none of them ever looked even close to picture supplied. Not that they weren't nice-just kinda run of the mill stuff. My opinion.

Rob

[dots]

Remember when stuff gets imported its at its best, remember thier location, by the time it gets shipped to you esp. if your on the East Coast, its not going to look its best........in addition, lighting as you percieve it, and the true color based on your bulbs and water clarity over time will morph the coral.......

I believe Chris is on the up and up and have been following some of the discussions recently. He has provided more than a forthright explanation at his photography techniques. And has tried his best it seems to control the what you see is what you get factor. Furthermore, there have been eyewitness accounts of these practices occuring in front of your fellow RC's.

There are MANY variables to add to the saturations and it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell what they will look like months from now in your tank. In any wholesalers defense, one could question your husbandry or accuse you of poor equipment.

Oh, BTW any person versed with photoshop does know that the monitor your looking at could be the problem also.......photo mags sell TONS of calibrating software for YOUR monitor.

No, I don't support wholesalers and am not associated with one...in fact I think its odd that people get mad at this, get off your couch and go look at the coral if it means so much to you.

Not trying to be rude in any way, but find it increasingly disturbing to find a wholeseller honestly trying to apease people and explain the possible differences time and time again......only to have it happen over and over. But perhaps it my location and I can get what I want when I can afford it.........But I usually end up driving two hours to Fremont to double check the quality rather than "add to cart" because I am a cynic..........I don't think in this hobby we have much to complain about in terms of "get what you pay for" with such a perishable and evolving commodity. I suggest going to the storefront and see for yourself first hand. I personaly would never buy a coral before seeing it, but thats my opinion. I think the WYSIWYG should include a "buyer beware" or a industry saying such as "sold by weight not volume" in the potato chip business is a more fitting term.

[onehundred20]

seems to me that when they are fresh to their systems chances are some of the corals will have amazing colors like , but since they are wild the stress of shipping, change of enviroment etc causes some lightening

on the other hand some pictures look normal to me and i have colors like that in my tank

but there are a select few pictures that just look way to nuclear and do not look natural at all, they should be taking the pictures under 10k or something to show their true color rather than their luminescence colors. I also agree some of the photos ive only been able to obtain the colors with photoshop.

im not baggin on RM though, I love their corals and service is amazing, my favorite online vendor for sure.

[orangekush4]

Alot of ther pics look photoshopet.

[trueblackpercula]

OK all I can say about this is if you do not have the same bulbs he does they will not look the same EVER! I am not defending his pictures but if you do not have the same bulbs then the corals will look different. But if you ask me they are Photoshoped for dure,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is why I have never bought anything from them.
I am very good in photo shop want to see?
Michael

[smoke15]

I have personally purchase 4 RM corals. All big, and very very beautiful on their site. 2 RTN in about a week, and the other 2 browned out like sirrus6 corals. They NEVER looked anything close to the photo. It was a 800-900 dollar lesson!!
If you need any more proof that a WILD colony is much more difficult to keep, then keep buying these corals.
Yes there are always exceptions to every rule. For every 5 browned out or dead corals, I am sure one person will show you an awesome RM specimen.
In NO way do I think they use photoshop, and these are just my PERSONAL experience. I dont live on the east coast, and in fact maybe a 2 hour drive away.
P.s I have kept SPS corals for 10 years in my 300 gallon reef tank, and have many examples of vibrant SPS corals. Just not from RM.

[PITSTOP]

I am a fan of RM and have had all great expereinces

In addition to the pink A. hyacinthus I posted above, here are the other 2 RM purchases I have made - new photos - these corals over 1 year in my 120 SPS:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...IMG_0052-1.jpg


The big blue-tipped Fiji slimer on top - I am trying to bring back the electric blue along the branches - a limitiation of my skills and equipment
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...1/IMG_0399.jpg

[smoke15]

Pitstop, not trying to insult you in anyway. I think we are talking about SPS corals ( although that coral with the green eyes is pretty). Your SPS corals in your tank, I imagine in NO WAY look like how they did in the picture when you first saw them on the RM site. I bet they had much greater color than the pictures you are showing us today. Your corals kinda look like the corals that the thread starter is complaining about.

[onehundred20]

its unforunate but I think alot of these wild colonies rtn or stn over time and should just be left where they were=/ I lost 4 just from shipping from RM, go aquaculture and frags

[trueblackpercula]

Hope you dont mind but just trying to make a point. This is why I will not buy anything from vendors that I do not know.
Michael
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/..._0399_copy.jpg

[dots]

I hope that my main point was not missed in that being the corals are so sensitive to transport, the difference in lighting conditions, morphology, that one can not be for sure that the picture taken and uploaded and viewed on a screen could be 100% accurate, due to lighting conditions. It seems that he is doing his best to compensate for this and shoot them as true as he can get. But as said, if it matters that much to have "that" coloration, then one should buy them in person and hope that they hold.

It has been mentioned in the past to put an 18% gray card into the photo for calibration when selling online, but thats up to him and his perogative if he chooses to do so.

[Shawnts106]

Just curious, but WHO ON EARTH OWNS 1000watt 20,000K MH?

If I was a vendor, online or LFS I WOULD NEVER put corals under this wattage, first, because thats crazy for the electric bill, but second, because, like I said before.. WHO ON EARTH OWNS 1000watt 20,000K MH?

Most of us either own 250 or 400watters for sps, if you have a MH setup.. ...

and yes, I think they look a bit touched up too... I have NEVER seen that many corals showing that much color in person before.. and I have seen HUNDREDS of WILD colonys, as well as personally seen and held them from various wholesalers...
Dont get me wrong, corals showing those intense colors do exsist, but not THAT MANY and not wild colonys straight from the wild!

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

wow...interesting.

[herostar]

sirrus6,

I didn't notice that you have any actinic supporton your lights and are just running 10k's. I bet that if you had some actinics, the look of the corals would be almost identical to the pictures. The 20k's that RM uses make the blue/purple colors come out more.

[Shawnts106]

Maybe true for him, but not for the other disappointed people out there.

[Dansin]

I bought 30 Frags and 3 colonies from reefersmadness 1 week ago. One of the pc. is a 5.5 in Plana cryrola table. one is a mill., and i forgot the other ones name. the color in the milli. are same as pictured from them,the others are little faded. The table and the one i can't remember the name is close to there pictures. I know i have bought pcs. from pet stores and it took 1 and a half months to color up. But they are looking good now.
I think shipping plays big roll on the colonies you have to figure that they have been handled and then put in a bag of water that is maybe a qt. of water, they already have started to slim and then placed into a bag of water for 12 to 14 hrs. transported to a airport put on a plane ride and then bounced around again. Next time you touch one of you corols see how much it slims than leave it in a small amount of water for 12 to14 hrs. and see what happens to it. It would be like locking yourself in are room with no ventalation. I am happy with what i purchased from reefersmadness i know it will take some time to color up but they looking better everyday. I think that they get stressed and that's what happens.

[PITSTOP]

"Pitstop, not trying to insult you in anyway. I think we are talking about SPS corals ( although that coral with the green eyes is pretty). Your SPS corals in your tank, I imagine in NO WAY look like how they did in the picture when you first saw them on the RM site. I bet they had much greater color than the pictures you are showing us today. Your corals kinda look like the corals that the thread starter is complaining about."

FYI...the green eyes coral IS an SPS coral and it did look exactly the same on the site as in my tank - I admitted that the Blue slimer lost its intense electric blue coloration - I blame my system - I have seen slimers in other reef keepers tanks that retained the original color...

[gasman059]

hey guys same here/ i most of d time look at my stuff personally before i get them. it's abusiness afterall.

[PITSTOP]

trueblackpercula - I'll sell you some frags from YOUR photo of my tank! ;-)

[trueblackpercula]

LMAO .....................

[cwegescheide]

I've ordered from several online vendors. I've ordered from RM once. I got about 5 or 6 frags. I think only 1 of the 6 resembled the picture even remotely. Most of the vendors I've purchased from vaguely resembled the pictures atleast. With that said the one that did look close, the stag i got was spectacular. But I found all in all 1 out of 6 is a little rediculous if you ask me. I try not to buy anything wild any more. I've had little to no success with wild stuff anyways.

Chris

[PITSTOP]

Again, Reefer Madness is awesome in my book - I have had great experiences with them.

I do agree with buying aquacultured/,aricultured frags and colonies - greater success rate.

Peace