Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.

[trueblackpercula]

Wait a second if I am reading this correct then adding this with sugar to tanks with ZEO will cuase rtn? And if you get RTN then your not feeding enough?
Thanks
Michael

[Green Thumb]

I made pappone and dosed it for the first time last night. Noticed alot of closed polyps durring the night on many stags.

My blue sponges didnt seem to react but I have a baseball size yellow sponge that has been closed up all day. Hopefully that is normal.

[DarkXerox]

Originally posted by trueblackpercula
Wait a second if I am reading this correct then adding this with sugar to tanks with ZEO will cuase rtn? And if you get RTN then your not feeding enough?
Thanks
Michael

ya thats what i just asked about, im confused too

[Sir]

Originally posted by DarkXerox
Translation:
Emh, my tank is also BB!
Let's clear something up for a second...
You use the sugar in these quantities and not in excess for stimulation the bacteria and therefore, together with the whole BC method brings a drop in nutrients thanks to the work of bacteria. If the phenomenons of STN or RTN are taking place, it means that the dosing is too low! Therefore you need to increase the dose of pappone...obviously in the tank there are already many oligotrophs, like zeovit, you need to avoid the use of sugar calmly. In the BC method, sugar is used in low quantities for the reasons I stated above, but the pappone in these cases in which are necessary, needs to be prepared calmly also without sugar.
------------------------------

I'm a little confused here...

Sir, che cosa significa << oligotrofiche >>? Dobbiamo usare piu pappone quando abbiamo RTN o STN? Ho pensato che questi problemi abbiano cominciato dopo il primo nutrimento di pappone per questi ragazzi. Questa era la ragione per l'idea a non usare lo zucchero per le vasche con i bassi livelli di nutrienti.

Allora...facciamo un discorso generico.
Thomas oligotrofiche significa molto povere di nutrienti.

Non mi è mai piaciuto il metodo zeovit...sia per le molte integrazioni di tutte quelle varie bottigliette, sia perchè usa prodotti che, dal punto di vista biologico, reputo dannosi.

qui si discute del pappone, nel metodo BC....io posso darvi informazioni sul metodo BC, non su problemi relativi allo zeovit....
l'rtn e il pappone non centra niente....l'rtn si verifica solo se si ha un forte aumento dei fosfati, a casua ad esempio, di uan quantità molto eccessiva di pappone immesso in vasca.
lo zucchero, si usa nel metodo BC....nel metodo zeovit non si usa e è dannoso perchè tende a far scendere ancora di più i nutrienti.
il pappone non è responsabile degli rtn, lo ripeto! ne tanto meno lo zucchero che viene immesso quando si prepara il pappone.
nel metodo BC, si usano quelle quantità di pappone che vi ho sempre descritto...e cioè 1/4 di cubetto per 300 litri uan volta a settimana.
questo è un dosaggio di sicurezza...io stò dosando ora nelal mia vasca di 280 litri 1/2 cubetto ogni 2 giorni.....
purtroppo però io vi parlo di un metodo...se però si mischiano i vari metodi, quindi pappone e zeovit e poi si hanno problemi, io non posso aiutarvi....perchè il metodo BC, è chiaro e i parametri da rispettare sono ben stabiliti...
mantenere ad esempio il kh a 12-14 in una vasca zeovit è estremamente pericoloso...
il metabolismo dei coralli, in una vasca zeovit, di solito, è molto più lento...spingere quindi sulla crescita dosando pappone e mantenendo i valori alti di calcio, kh, magnesio ecc ecc, e allo stesso tempo aggiungere batteri (tipo zeostar) e spurgare gli animali(zeospur2) è molto pericoloso....


ripero quindi che il pappone e l'rtn non sono collegati! se fate le cose per bene, come vi ho sempre descritto questo non accade.
chi ha riscontrato problemi di rtn usando il pappone deve :
-controllare i fosfati
-aggiungere carbone attivo
-controllare meglio il metodo di gestione
-controllare se ci sono animali nelle vicinanze che possano interferire e dannegiare l'animale colpito da rtn
-potare le parti malate delal colonia e lasciare solo quelle sane
-fare un bagno in acqua e iodio

vorrei capire bene come mai si sono riscontrati questi problemi.
probabilmente non seguite per bene quelle poche regole.

due foto della mia vasca...
la prima del 28 gennaio...
le altre di qualche giorno fà...
i colori sono ancora molto scuri, a causa del trasloco effettuato circa 2 mesi fà....
guardate però la crescita.

ciao Fabio

[Green Thumb]

Just thaught I would update. My sponge has oppened up. My corals are looking REALY GOOD. On some corals I see growth after 1 day. Amazing. I plan to continue dosing aminos and pappone.

[kokob007]

Good thing i forgot to add sugar when i made pappone, I've been using it 6 weeks everything looks good, I also use Zeovite would like to know.

Greg B.

[trueblackpercula]

some please translate i think we are on to something here
Michael

[Flint&Eric]

Zeo and other systems already carfully dose a carbon source to feed the bacs. By adding sugar it disrupts this and can be very harmful. Dosing the pappone without the sugar should be ok, but not with. I'd be careful mixing the two no matter what.

hth,

eric

[sndwave80]

WOW, Those pics are out of this world. What’s the secret?

[sndwave80]

WOW, Those pics are out of this world. What’s the secret?

[Robert Patterso]

Originally posted by sndwave80
WOW, Those pics are out of this world. What’s the secret?

the "pappone" for one. Intense lighting, skimming and good parimeters.

[charlesjordanjr]

I just started dosing the pappone. I am excited to see the results.
I am going to keep a picture journal on my computer and post images in 6-8 weeks.
-Chuck

[Roadtoad]

I dont have time to translate the whole thing right now but he is saying that the mix of zeo and sugar is damaging to the corals because the addition of sugar drops the nutrient levels even more. Corals need some nutrition, dropping the nutrient level when they are already low can cause RTN.

Use either BC or zeo but do not mix them.

[bngowe]

geehs... those were breath taking!!

[WILDTHING]

I have a couple questions for those of you using the Pappone, have you increased all of your paramaters to the elevated levels suggested in the thread?
Ca 500
Mg 1500-1600
Sr 30
Iodine 0,06
KH 12
PH 8.5
And if you have did you do it slowly? Are you having trouble keeping them at these levels?

[Green Thumb]

Second week of dosing.

My sponges didnt close up this time.

Polyp extention on my corals was fenomenal this morning.

My corals are loving this food.

Grazie!

[jero1]

Originally posted by WILDTHING
I have a couple questions for those of you using the Pappone, have you increased all of your paramaters to the elevated levels suggested in the thread?
Ca 500
Mg 1500-1600
Sr 30
Iodine 0,06
KH 12
PH 8.5
And if you have did you do it slowly? Are you having trouble keeping them at these levels?

Yes I have but I did bring them up slowly....most were close. I have noticed that I need to pay attention to ca levels,seems it is being used up alittle more now that I have been useing the pappone now for a month+. I'll try to post my log as I have been testing just about daily for 3 weeks prior to starting up, to now

[Sir]

Originally posted by Green Thumb
Second week of dosing.

My sponges didnt close up this time.

Polyp extention on my corals was fenomenal this morning.

My corals are loving this food.

Grazie!

di niente..
controlla sempre i fosfati e non esagerare con il pappone...
altrimenti,anche avendo fosfati bassi, potresti avere dei colori scuri...quindi con le giuste dosi..

ciao!

[Green Thumb]

Originally posted by Sir
di niente..
controlla sempre i fosfati e non esagerare con il pappone...
altrimenti,anche avendo fosfati bassi, potresti avere dei colori scuri...quindi con le giuste dosi..

ciao!

Grazie Sir!!

I speak french and spanish so I understand what your saying sometimes.

Im keeping my dose small as to not get a problem. I use the equivalent of 1/2 cubito for my 100 gallon system. Also running phosphate remover for prevention. Also dosing the aminos 1 hour before.

ciao!

[bureau13]

&%$@! I can't find live oysters around here anywhere, god only knows why. I have everything else...is there really much difference between 5 clams + 5 oysters and 10 clams?

jds

[Henry Bowman]

bureau13,

You should check with a few local restaurants. They become more popular in the late spring to summer months. Check the phonebook for oyster bars or sushi restaurants. I'm sure the local commercial purveyors have them, just the groceries dont carry them. I'm in the foodservice biz and have never had a hard time procuring them from. I see you are in FLA. I know Hooters orignated there in Clearwater and they have them year round (stop laughing and dont ask !).

HTH

[bureau13]

Ha, I'm laughing because I was just mentioning that very thing to my wife not fifteen minutes ago! I just may have to make a visit over there tomorrow...

jds

[Sir]

Originally posted by Green Thumb
Grazie Sir!!

I speak french and spanish so I understand what your saying sometimes.

Im keeping my dose small as to not get a problem. I use the equivalent of 1/2 cubito for my 100 gallon system. Also running phosphate remover for prevention. Also dosing the aminos 1 hour before.

ciao!

ok perfect!

[class clown]

Originally posted by DarkXerox
[B]Translation:
Emh, my tank is also BB!
Let's clear something up for a second...
You use the sugar in these quantities and not in excess for stimulation the bacteria and therefore, together with the whole BC method brings a drop in nutrients thanks to the work of bacteria. If the phenomenons of STN or RTN are taking place, it means that the dosing is too low! Therefore you need to increase the dose of pappone...obviously in the tank there are already many oligotrophs, like zeovit, you need to avoid the use of sugar calmly. In the BC method, sugar is used in low quantities for the reasons I stated above, but the pappone in these cases in which are necessary, needs to be prepared calmly also without sugar.
------------------------------

I actually experienced my first case of RTN in 5 years. I attributed it to some heavy fragging and a pavona's sweeper tenticles getting too close to my prized acro, but now wondering if it could possibly be due the BC method that I've recently started trying too. I didn't think it would be related to the BC method, but then i read this quote above and it made me wonder some more.

Can we get some more in depth analysis on this translation. Should I be worried about RTN occuring on other corals? if it is possible that this RTN incident was related to the BC method (not saying it is), would your recomendation be for me to actually add more cubes at one time??? seems backwards - seems like I'd want to add less, right?

Thanks,
Ben

[JohnL]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1074951