Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.

[skippyreef]

Got it Dark Xerox.......

I will try that next time. I did mix some in with the pappone this time but I will dose the glutamine prior to feeding the tank next time. I am going down to do some test now to see where the paramaters are before I start the water change.

[wrott]

DarkXerox,
Please repost the recipe; I am heading to the fish market this afternoon.
much thanks, Rodney

[skippyreef]

I just tested. My PO4 is 0.01 on my Hanna meter so it did not move up really at all

[Robert Patterso]

DarkXerox,

On my first making of the recipe I added the gln to the pappone.
You say to add it to the tank seperately. I bought 500mg caps.. What would be the best way to measure out the proper dosage of the gln so you know your not adding to much?

[WILDTHING]

[i] Ciao...
riguardo al discorso "grandezza" degli ingredienti, io non sarei troppo fiscale....la ricetta classica prevede l'uso di cozze, vongole ecc ecc...5 di ogniuna, ma poi potete regolarvi da soli benissimo...magari se le vongole sono proprio piccole, ne mettete 6 o 7....senza mai esagerare però! la ricetta base è appunto di 5 pezzi di ogni ingrediente, cercate quindi di non esagerare mai con le quantità, altrimenti cambia tutto...
se io dico 1/2 cubetto di pappone per 400 litri, mi riferisco alla ricetta classica...se uno però prepara il pappone con 10 di ogni ingrediente, la dose non può essere di 1/2 cubetto, ma di 1/4.....è abbastanza semplice il discorso.....quindi per evitare incomprensioni vi prego di attenervi quanto più possibile alla ricetta originale. 1/2 cubetto sono circa 5-6 grammi. Non vi fermate troppo su questo fatto però...siete abbastanza liberi di variare un pò le dosi.....quindi 5 oppure 6 cozze, se sono piccole e cosi via....

ciao Fabio

Se dosi le quantità giuste di pappone, non hai problemi di fosfati o altri nutrienti, quindi puoi dosarlo anche il sabato notte,....dopo aver fatto il cambio, magari la mattina....se invece hai i nutrienti che tendono ad alzarsi allora è probabile che ne stai dosando troppo....parlo sempre del pappone classico!







Can someone please translate these two posts to english?

[DarkXerox]

the first post is basically what I reiterated before. The second says " if you dose the proper quantity of pappone, and you dont have PO4 or other nutrient problems, then you can dose also another cube on saturday, after that, do the water change, maybe in the morning. However, if the nutrients tend to go up then it is possible that you have been dosing too much...I always talk about the classic pappone."

[WILDTHING]

Originally posted by DarkXerox
the first post is basically what I reiterated before. The second says " if you dose the proper quantity of pappone, and you dont have PO4 or other nutrient problems, then you can dose also another cube on saturday, after that, do the water change, maybe in the morning. However, if the nutrients tend to go up then it is possible that you have been dosing too much...I always talk about the classic pappone."

thank you DarkXerox

[Serioussnaps]

I would like to add that "gluatmine powder" contains some, or a mixture of some sort of ----magnesium stearate, titanium something, milk, whey, soy, and other addiitives that I would dare add to the mix or directly to the tank...i would be very careful in adding this and would steer clear in general...i as well bought AA and glutamine but until i know how all those additives will affect my tank i refuse to add it...i am consulting wiht RHF to see what he thinks all these extra items would do ......i have searched for pure AA withut all the other crap in those pills..only a slight amount is the actual AA..I want pure liquid AA and dont know if i can get it!

Do the italian reefers use the AA's in systems like Zeo prior to feeding?..i really want to know this

Are the Italian reefers adding AA's as powder or are they freezing the HGH..im somewhat confused as to what EXACTLY are their AA's and in what form?

Also..."fresh seafood"......i would think this just came out of the ocean or within a day of just being caught or farmed.....hard to do when you live inland........if you are inland in the USA you probably dont have "true fresh seafood".....where are you buyin your "fresh seafood" in Itally?.....Do you mean just came out of the water and was never frozen?


Also, if your fresh seafood is supposedly dangerous if frozen before how does that stop purely fresh seafood that is turned into "pappone" with the end result of being "frozen" as well from being dangerous?

It all is going to end up frozen!

[jnarowe]

Serioussnaps: Just a quick note about "fresh" seafood. In the USA there is very little fresh seafood. Most seafood/fish are frozen onboard the boat as they are harvested so that the boat can stay out long enough to be productive.

[Robert Patterso]

Other than the shrimp I bought, the clam, oysters and mussels were alive when I bought them. They come in from Virginia. I bought my gln from a natural health food store. No yeast, sugar, it is vegatable based. So far have had good results, new growth everywhere. Have fed 4 times so far, once a week and some corals have put on between 1/2 - 1 inch.

[jnarowe]

sorry, I forgot about live shellfish when I posted that. Our Costco has live clams, mussels etc. sometimes.

[Henry Bowman]

Just a quick note about "fresh" seafood. In the USA there is very little fresh seafood. Most seafood/fish are frozen onboard the boat as they are harvested so that the boat can stay out long enough to be productive.

Not to be controversial but this is not correct. Although there is alot of seafood that is frozen on boats. The only item that is largly frozen as a standard is shrimp. They are harvested into a big slurpy. Other seafood or "fresh fish" is packed in ice on boats but not frozen solid. (there is a big difference here) I lived in Dallas Tx for many years where there are 2 of the largest inland fisheries in existence, both at the airport. They get daily deliveries of fish from around the world.

I know this because I have worked in hotels and restaurants as a Chef . In that capacity, I toured the plants and talked with the fishmongers and purchasing agents at those businesses. I can assure you that fresh fish makes it to many inland places in the us. Ask any owner operator of a sushi bar. They'd rather comit hari-kari before serving frozen fish.

If it is advertized as "fresh" in a store it should be Fresh not never frozen. Not saying this does not happen... but shouldnt.

[pito]

Originally posted by Robert Patterso
Other than the shrimp I bought, the clam, oysters and mussels were alive when I bought them. They come in from Virginia. I bought my gln from a natural health food store. No yeast, sugar, it is vegatable based. So far have had good results, new growth everywhere. Have fed 4 times so far, once a week and some corals have put on between 1/2 - 1 inch.

Can you post a link to the GLN you're useing?

[Robert Patterso]

It's by Country Life, www.countrylife.com.

Ingredients as it says on the bottle.

vitamin B6 10 mg
l glutamine (free form) 500mg

Other ingredients - cellulose, silica, magnesium sterate

NO: yeast, corn, wheat, soy, gluten, milk, salt, sugar, starch, perservatives or artifical color.

Label says:
L-Glutamine caps, 500mg free form amino acids, Supplement with B6, 50 Perservative Free Vegetarian Cap.

That's everything on the bottle. I'm no scientist so maybe someone can say good or bad. It's working for me, that's all I know.

[REEF-DADDY]

Originally posted by Robert Patterso
It's by Country Life, www.countrylife.com.

Ingredients as it says on the bottle.

vitamin B6 10 mg
l glutamine (free form) 500mg

Other ingredients - cellulose, silica, magnesium sterate

NO: yeast, corn, wheat, soy, gluten, milk, salt, sugar, starch, perservatives or artifical color.

Label says:
L-Glutamine caps, 500mg free form amino acids, Supplement with B6, 50 Perservative Free Vegetarian Cap.

That's everything on the bottle. I'm no scientist so maybe someone can say good or bad. It's working for me, that's all I know.

Is this the generally accepted form of AA? What are the Italians using?

[trueblackpercula]

REEF-DADDY

Is this the generally accepted form of AA? What are the Italians using?

They have not told anyone yet as to what type of AA it is. it has something to do with the HGH they are using and after it is frozen with the food mix some type of AA is resleased into it by putting iot in the freezer. Hope this helps I am also awaiting the release of the articial so i can find out as well.
Michael

[jero1]

all this experimenting on your own tank is well....sad.... The Italians have been working on this and with a little patience we will learn about it soon. Why risk the health and survival of your corals before the article is out...Most of this thread are people already modifying the recipe and the ones releasing the info have not done so yet. just look at there tanks...they are doing something right!
Thank you to all who have provided this info and are working to help the hobby with new tools to insure the survival of corals long term....
P.S. I sure do wish I spoke Italian

[Robert Patterso]

Further back in the thread it was stated the gln is a good source of AA's. Not ALL the Italians are or have been using HGH. The main thing in the Blue Coral method is the pappone. They said they have had outstanding results without the use of HGH just the recipe of 5 oysters, 5 mussels, 5 clams, and 5 shrimp with a tblspn of sugar and 250ml of ro/di water. I used 1 500mg capsule in the recipe. I then put into some of the frozen brine shrimp cubes packets I had. It filled 4 of those packets which measure out to be approx. 15 ml. So far I've had great results. I also use ReefPlus AA's once a week. I've been feeding the pappone once a week for a month and will start feeding twice a week starting tonite. I plan to do this for 90 days. Will stop for a month and start again in a month. As long as you follow the recipe exactly (if possible) I believe IMHO you can't go wrong.

Working for me

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Henry Bowman
Not to be controversial but this is not correct. Although there is alot of seafood that is frozen on boats. The only item that is largly frozen as a standard is shrimp. They are harvested into a big slurpy. Other seafood or "fresh fish" is packed in ice on boats but not frozen solid. (there is a big difference here) I lived in Dallas Tx for many years where there are 2 of the largest inland fisheries in existence, both at the airport. They get daily deliveries of fish from around the world.

I know this because I have worked in hotels and restaurants as a Chef . In that capacity, I toured the plants and talked with the fishmongers and purchasing agents at those businesses. I can assure you that fresh fish makes it to many inland places in the us. Ask any owner operator of a sushi bar. They'd rather comit hari-kari before serving frozen fish.

If it is advertized as "fresh" in a store it should be Fresh not never frozen. Not saying this does not happen... but shouldnt.

yeah well, I guess my buddies that own commercial fishing vessels must be the exception. I live in a community which its entire history is linked to fishing. The best sushi grade tuna loin I have ever eaten was frozen at sea and handed to me that way. Sushi bars are an extremely small portion of the whole fish market and often do get fish through air distribution, but the majority of fish sold in this country was frozen at sea. It wouldn't make economical sense to take a tuna vessel out and come back after one day's catch. They wouldn't even be able to pay for the fuel.

The economics of fishing is very tight. The vessels have to buy their "quota", pay for fuel and maintainance, crew, and then take the market rate when they come back. Sometimes the fisherman will roll the dice and wait a couple weeks or more before they sell in hopes that the price will go up 25 cents a pound. I am not saying they don't make money, but it is difficult to do so, especially when weather and market prices can take such a high toll on revenue.

One of my closest friends has black cod quota and he does well with it. Americans don't generally appreciate that fish and most of what he sells goes to Japan and it's frozen at sea. I have been on a lot of commercial fishing vessels and they all have had extensive blast freezers on board. There is a way to do it with brine that makes the fish extremely stable...

I was a cook, sous-chef, private chef, dining club manager and more and always thought that all the fish we bought was fresh. Then I moved to a fishing town.

[Serioussnaps]

Originally posted by trueblackpercula
REEF-DADDY

They have not told anyone yet as to what type of AA it is. it has something to do with the HGH they are using and after it is frozen with the food mix some type of AA is resleased into it by putting iot in the freezer. Hope this helps I am also awaiting the release of the articial so i can find out as well.
Michael

Im confused because they say this, but then turn around and say they add AA's a couple hours prior to feeding the pappone. So which is it? Frozen HGH in the pappone, AA;s prior, or both? Contradictory?

[Serioussnaps]

Originally posted by Robert Patterso
It's by Country Life, www.countrylife.com.

Ingredients as it says on the bottle.

vitamin B6 10 mg
l glutamine (free form) 500mg

Other ingredients - cellulose, silica, magnesium sterate

NO: yeast, corn, wheat, soy, gluten, milk, salt, sugar, starch, perservatives or artifical color.

Label says:
L-Glutamine caps, 500mg free form amino acids, Supplement with B6, 50 Perservative Free Vegetarian Cap.

That's everything on the bottle. I'm no scientist so maybe someone can say good or bad. It's working for me, that's all I know.

These things are not regulated by anyone and disclosure of what EXACTLY is in it is not required by law. Not disagreeing, just thought it should be put out there. I find it hard to believe there are no additives.

[Serioussnaps]

Originally posted by jnarowe
yeah well, I guess my buddies that own commercial fishing vessels must be the exception. I live in a community which its entire history is linked to fishing. The best sushi grade tuna loin I have ever eaten was frozen at sea and handed to me that way. Sushi bars are an extremely small portion of the whole fish market and often do get fish through air distribution, but the majority of fish sold in this country was frozen at sea. It wouldn't make economical sense to take a tuna vessel out and come back after one day's catch. They wouldn't even be able to pay for the fuel.

The economics of fishing is very tight. The vessels have to buy their "quota", pay for fuel and maintainance, crew, and then take the market rate when they come back. Sometimes the fisherman will roll the dice and wait a couple weeks or more before they sell in hopes that the price will go up 25 cents a pound. I am not saying they don't make money, but it is difficult to do so, especially when weather and market prices can take such a high toll on revenue.

One of my closest friends has black cod quota and he does well with it. Americans don't generally appreciate that fish and most of what he sells goes to Japan and it's frozen at sea. I have been on a lot of commercial fishing vessels and they all have had extensive blast freezers on board. There is a way to do it with brine that makes the fish extremely stable...

I was a cook, sous-chef, private chef, dining club manager and more and always thought that all the fish we bought was fresh. Then I moved to a fishing town.

Always going to the beach during spring and summer months in NC....Moorehead City in particular, there are plenty of boats that go out and come back that very day with absolutely non frozen fish and other catch that you can buy on the dock that moment. With that said, I still suspect the overwhelming majority of seafood in grocery stores inland have been previously frozen even if they say it hasnt. It makes sense economically not only for logistical reasons but because if you freeze it less goes bad...less loss. Also, you are probably more likely to get catch like this in Italy as most of the country is surrounded by water!

[Serioussnaps]

"commercial" being the keyword in all of this small debate

[Robert Patterso]

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
Im confused because they say this, but then turn around and say they add AA's a couple hours prior to feeding the pappone. So which is it? Frozen HGH in the pappone, AA;s prior, or both? Contradictory?

Make the recipe without the gln (or whatever you intend to use for AA'), dose the AA's before feeding the pappone. It has been posted both ways. I did it with the gln in the pappone. 500mg will be spread out over probably a 90 day period. Once I get to 90 days I will make a new recipe and whatever is left from first batch will be thrown away and replaced with new.

[ocd_mariner]

Im not exactly sure its the freezing of the fish that is so bad. For instance, at my local supermarket there was fresh seafood, sliced or whole and laid out on ice. Some of that seafood said "previously frozen". I think this would be ok to use.

However, next to that case were several 6ft tall freezers. All of which were stocked with frozen fish filets, mahi mahi, tuna, salmon, etc. All were shrink wrapped with no telling what kind of preservatives and additives and no telling how long the fish had been frozen. I'm guessing this would be the bad fish to use