Dendrophylliacs: Roe's vs. Fraggle

[sirrus6]

I attempted to post this thread in the Vendor's forum, but I do not yet meet the required RC post count, so I could not. Perhaps a moderator will switch it to that forum, if appropriate:

I purchased a 4-polyp colony of a coral advertised as “dendrophyllia� from Roes’s Marine World, see below. The polyps never opened during the tank’s light period, but they did open during darkness. I feed them mysid shrimp after lights out 2 or 3 times per week. They have not obviously grown nor have they deteriorated in the 5 months that I have kept them. I then bought a single polyp of a coral also claimed to be dendrophyllia from Fraggle Reef (below). Miguel at Fraggle Reef indicated that this polyp remains open under lighting, and this claim turned out to be true in my tank as well. This polyp extended its feeding tentacles almost immediately after acclimation, and they remain out during the tank’s light period. It readily eats mysid shrimp.
These corals do not look the same (hard to tell from the pictures). The Roe’s version has a cylindrical and relatively stiff outer casing, and the feeding tentacles are relatively thin and quite numerous. The Fraggle version is conical in shape, and seems to have a relatively more elastic body wall that expands upon feeding. The Roe’s coral does not expand or otherwise change its shape upon ingestion of food. In addition, the Fraggle dendrophyllia has thicker and relatively fewer feeding tentacles.

Both corals cost essentially the same (per polyp).

I do not know the species, or even the genus (dendrophyllia or tubastrea ?), of either specimen, although a comparison with species identified in the thread

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...a&pagenumber=1

does help refine the possibilities.


So, the lesson that I learned: The coral sold as a dendrophyllia by Fraggle Reef exhibits the typical feeding behavior (during the light period) described by other aquarists for this genus, whereas the Roe’s version does not.

Fraggle Reef dendro, lights on



Roe's Marine World dendro, lights on



Roe's Marine World dendro, after lights out, with flash

[sirrus6]

Fraggle Reef dendro

[DJ88©]

[moved]

[joe18]

They kinda look the same, but i always trust fraggle reef over other places, especially roes marine!
its probebly an issue of which one is just plaine healthier and obviously miguels dendros are healthier and more "livley" so to speak.
i just dont trust Roes Marine....
fraggle reef is great!

[JenDub]

Have you tried feeding them squid? They need to be trained to say out during the day and the best way is to feed a lot of squid. They tend to say out more when their bellies are stuffed.

No doubt, if you asked me who I'd rather deal with it's Miguel all the way. He's a standup guy

[REEF-DADDY]

I have to say the fraggle reef piece looks more like my Dendro. That being said mine will come out at night only if not feed regularly or stressed. When this would happen I'll feed when the lights first come on and then start pushing it back into the day until the coral is re-trained.

[sirrus6]

Squid could indeed be the solution. I merely swabbed a small piece of fresh squid over the closed mouth during the tank lighting period, and the feeding tentacles appeared with 10 min. It was a squid feast for all! I never saw any more than a hint of tentacle extension when mysis shrimp were used under similar circumstances. Unfortunately, I have a harlequin tusk who agressively fought for the squid, so I still have some challenges in implementing this feeding plan, but the preliminary results are encouraging! I can't use a feeding cage due to the configuration of the rocks around the dendros.

[gflat65]

Cut a 20 oz plastic bottle top off and invert it over the polyps and feed through the opening. Works for me on acans and micros, etc.

[WendyMc]

sirrus, they both look like dendros to me, but I think the difference between the 2 is that Miguel's must have been captive propagated, & Roe's was wild. Does this sound right?

I'm chiming in because I ordered from Roe's, & my 2 polyp guy never did open much. I lost 1 polyp in the move & the other did a bail out...still alive & eating, but doesn't have a skeleton to hide in anymore.

However, my 3 polyp from roe's opened very large & acted like a dendro. Both were wild, but my 2 polyp was cut before shipping, I don't know how long before, but it was obviously much more stressed.

[DonavonsReef]

I ordered 3 polyps from Roes (THEY NEVER OPENED) I know of 4 other people who ordered those crappy dendros & there's never opened either.

[DonavonsReef]

I picked these up last week, they opened within 10min of being in the tank.

[WendyMc]

sweet, did you get them locally? Were they captive propagated or wild?

[DonavonsReef]

Those came from Anthony at Aquadesignz.

[WendyMc]

Nice!

[sirrus6]

Eight months ago, I started this thread with the hope on increasing my knowledge of dendro husbandry. Thanks to all that responded. Below I update my progress on this topic through pictures. Overall, the dendros eat during the day (3 x a week) but do not keep their tentacles out much beyond a hour or so after feeding. They do extend them after dark. So, mixed success; they are still alive, and the presence of "babies" suggests that they are doing well, but there is some tissue recession at the highest points, and they do not expose their tentacles when the tank lights are on. I have not seen any of my fish picking on them. The cluster of four polyps was purchased from Roes', and the two single polyps came from Fraggle.

The dendros in repose.


The dendros having lunch.


The dendros 1 hr after lunch.


The dendros at night, with flash


Ken

[paininthewrasse]

Dendros are just like sun corals right, closed during the day, open at night. Need feedings like sun corals etc?

They're very nice when open but if they stay closed all day long and only open up at night it seems pointless to me..

[musty baby]

My tank is usually more interesting to look at when the lights are off anyway. Even the fuzzy sticks have their polyps extended further.

And paininthewrasse, most of these non-photosynthetic corals open at night because that's when food is most available to them in their natural habitats. If you feed during the day and keep feeding during the day many will respond by being open during the day.

[Vamp1975]

Originally posted by paininthewrasse
Dendros are just like sun corals right, closed during the day, open at night. Need feedings like sun corals etc?

They're very nice when open but if they stay closed all day long and only open up at night it seems pointless to me..

Dendro's actually stay open most of the time sun corals don't

If they pull in during the day they might be getting too much light.

I also agree with Jen on the squid, it's a favorite of all the inhabitants of my tanks from corals to fish.

["Umm, fish?"]

ryansholl is correct. Most of the night feeders can be trained to stay open all day by frequent, small feedings. I feed small feedings 6-8 times/day (basically every time the tubastrea start to close up).

A good introduction to the family, for those who might not have seen it:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dendrophylliidae.htm

[DarkXerox]

Originally posted by Vamp1975
Dendro's actually stay open most of the time sun corals don't

If they pull in during the day they might be getting too much light.

I also agree with Jen on the squid, it's a favorite of all the inhabitants of my tanks from corals to fish.

That is really interesting, I have to try that. I've been feeding mainly cyclopeeze and mysis and really haven't had any growth on mine in about a year.

[WendyMc]

Sirrus, awesome to see improvement! Try chopping those pieces in 1/2. I think they might be too big, and your dendros are expending more energy trying to digest them than they should have to. They are getting some nutrients from your feedings, but not enough. After they have swallowed the smaller piece, try again after 3-4 hours. If you can keep this up daily, I'll bet my dendros yours will be a wonderful display within a week or 2, open 95% of the day. This isn't a light bet, either, I love my dendros more than any other coral in my tank! 3x a week will sustain a colony, but for the best display, daily feedings do the trick. After you have your polyps open all the time, you will only have to feed once a day, I just suggested the frequent feedings to get them caught up on their nutritional needs.

I don't think they're getting too much light. I got some of my dendros from Mike @ The Captive Reef, and he keeps them right under his halide at the top of the tank for ease of feeding.

[sirrus6]

Thanks Wendy. I'll try your suggestion. The food chunks in the pic are just part of my normal fish chow. I think that I will have to prepare some separate dendro-sized pieces (squid as per JenDub?). The major problem that I have in feeding the dendros is poaching by my fish, especially my tusk, pep hog, and mandarin. Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to design a workable feeding cage that can accomodate the dendros on their rock ledge. So, after feeding I guard them with my turkey baster, shooing away the poachers with blasts of water. The mandarin is particularly persistent.

[WendyMc]

Yup, Squid seems to be the best. I do a mix of Hikari Mysis, chopped scallops, prawn, and calamari steak from the fresh seafood counter which I grate/chop finely. Mine eat it all really well, but the calamari gets the best response out of the new ones when they are still stressed. I have to guard my caulastrea from my clowns because they have a slower feeding response than the dendros. Hopefully when yours are stronger they won't take long at all to swallow thier food, and you'll have less baster time .

["Umm, fish?"]

The mandarin is going after squid? Wow!