All you EVER wanted to know about Southdown

[Grumpy Vet]

Hi all.

I thought perhaps I could help everyone out a little bit by consolidating all information on the southdown sand situation w/ Home Depot.

The reason I do this - it keeps popping up - but not the whole story - so after a couple phone calls, a few HD trips and some research here we go:

Southdown tropical play sand is the new thing in reef beds. Why? A study was done and found that this sand has a "perfect" mixture of particulate size for DSBs. Don't ask me - I use CC and am intent on killing my fish. I got some for my seahorse tank and refugium.

Ok - now who can get it? Unfortunately it is only available from Home Depot in the Northeast. Southdown is (was) a regional company from Pennsylvania. Last year in Oct/Nov they were purchased by a company called Cemex. This is a company based in Mexico that "financial investors" believe will be restructuring to concentrate solely on Cement products and may severely decrease or stop the ancillary products of lime and sand Southdown does or did manufacture.

What does this mean? According to Home Depot - they are having more and more problems getting Southdown Sand. My feeling - get it while you can - as it may not be around in the near future. Conjecture solely - but certainly possible.

So - if a company like Home Depot is having problems getting a product - what do they do? They find another source. Home Depot has done that.

Caveat Reefer

The SKU for Southdown play sand is 578-819. This is a universal SKU for 2 different vendors of play sand. The other supplier is NOT Southdown and looks strikingly different. If you read nothing else - read this -

Do Not Order Southdown Playsand w/ this SKU or description and Expect to get Southdown.....The manufacturer will vary and needs to be physically checked by you or the HD guy.

To help things along if you call Home Depot or go there the product is found in one of two places. It is found by the lumber or in the Garden Center. The Garden Center manager is who does the ordering and that is "division" or "section" 28 (Garden).

Some Home Depots will consider doing transfers of this product. I made some calls and found that they will charge a customer $35 for a "stock transfer" regardless of 2 bags or 1 skid. The problem is getting them to make good on this or getting them to actually get it done. I have read several threads where getting HD to actually do the transfer was an exercise in futility. To my knowledge it has not been done successfully yet. This is probably due to the managers getting paid on turn and earn (low inventory) and the lack of profit from a bag of sand.

So that is what I have to report all...If you have any questions - ask away.......and to prove I know of what I speak....I offer up my very significant investment purchased today -

[fishpoo]

amazing, over 53 views and no replies. let me be the first to say
thanks for the info

[G7subs]

Hey...thanks for the heads up.I just recently bought 3 50# bags at HD in Rockaway NJ.They had 5 more bags.Manager said that was all he had and couldn't anticipated getting more.Glad I snuck in under the wire!

[Bear2327]

I agree with fishpoo... all of the views and no replies . Seems to be very common among the different boards...

Anyway... thanks for taking the time to research the SD situation

I went to my local HD and bought 150 lbs. to keep on hand .

Great info!

-Lyle

[Doug]

Hi GV,

Excellent info!

Thanks

Doug

[3_high_low]

thanks grumpy,
now i'm thinkin' i should pick some more up for future endevors

[cwa46]

I had a pallet transferred into Nashville by the local HD. I am there a lot and one of the sales reps did it for me. It took about an hour to get the Paperwork done and the local store made nothing on the sand. It cost me $100 plus delivery plus the std. price per bag.

[ZippyBoy]

I just bought three 50# bags of SD for my 135 reef at Home Depot in East Meadow, Long Island. They had 3 pallets of the stuff about 3 weeks ago. It is outside in the garden section.

Happy hunting

[Canadian]

FYI,

There have been SEVERAL instances in which people were able to have sand transferred between stores.

[slojmn]

Thanks for the info Grumpy. I live on the west coast and cannot get any in the Home Depot. Last year was able to go in on a pallet with a group of locals and got 5 bags. I used most of it in my 120g and refugium but have about 1.5 bags left. this will go into my nano and the rest into my two tanks. I wish I could stockpile about 8 bags of this stufff. Oh well, I feel lucky that I got it when I did .

[Grumpy Vet]

I'm glad people got some good information out of this. That makes me happy. Some of this information will be very slightly redundant - but is a compilation of several boards' information - pls forgive my not wanting to type this 4 different ways.

It sounds as if the transferring is possible - but will require some real effort and some luck to find the right person to do it. I do subscribe to about 4 boards and have heard of 5 cases so far reported of getting sand transferred out of the Northeast - It has ranged in cost from no extra charges to $100 plus freight, plus cost of product. Nice parity there in policy Home Depot...sheesh...

Two cases reported of people ordering by SKU and getting the "non Southdown" play sand.....remember to have them check for Southdown style before transferring and ordering. I have also seen at least 20 people post they are S.O.L. Keep trying folks if you have the time and desire - looks like it is possible.

Southdown has been reportedly transferred from Northeast HD stores to Cincinnati, OH, Nashville, TN & Winston/Salem, NC. Anyone get it transferred from a HD farther west or south than these places?

It also seems, like I reported earlier, that the product is stocked only the Northeast (including New England). It is not stocked in every location by any stretch of the imagination. Several people did as I did and found that Southdown's SKU is not listed on the Home Depot website. I called and asked why. Apparently if it is not UPS"able" it does not go on the website.

During the conversation w/ Home Depot it turns out there are actually 5 manufacturers listed under this sku that make playsand for Home Depot NE region. The northeast region is defined as northern Virginia market over to Pennsylvania and into New England. If Southdown is at a store that is not in this area - it is a fluke.

The Home Depot policy according to the manager at customer service I talked to re: shipping Southdown between stores is "Get Bent". So - if you want it shipped to your local HD - polish up on your smooth talking, ask for a lady in the Garden Center and do your very best Barry White voice.......we got it together now baby.......

The manager suggested that if I really wanted Southdown - call them directly and pool an order. So I called Southdown. The number for Southdown Sales and Customer Service (located in Easton, PA) is 800-526-1753. The closest manufacturing plant to me is in Thomasville, PA (York, PA) and they do sell direct to the public in skid quantities and will even do a will call (pick-up).
They also have a plant in northwestern New Jersey:

1 Limecrest Rd
Lafayette, NJ 07848
(973) 383-2000

It was also suggested that LFS buy a few pallets and help their customers out. Southdown is trying very hard to send their sand to other markets - but as of yet - Home Depot being set up regionally - has "local vendors" and is not buying from them out of the NE region. Southdown confirmed that they only ship to HD stores above Northern Virginia. They don't even ship to HD stores in Virginia Beach or Richmond. The lady at Southdown was very nice and helpful. She said there are no plans as of now to discontinue the production of sand......who knows....

I have a call in to the sales guy at Easton (Dave Jackson) for a price quote (both pick/up and delivery). When I get this information - I will be happy to share it w/ everyone.

Toodles -

GV

[Jaten]

I don't mean to be dense here, but I really am confused......sku 578-819 IS or IS NOT the Southdown sand that we want in our reefs. I read recently in the Hattiesburg, MS reef club website that someone was going to Memphis to buy Southdown from the Home Depot. I live about 70 miles south of Memphis, but before I make a mistake purchasing sand, how can I be certain that I get the "right stuff." Thanks for all the information!

[Mako]

Make sure the bag you are buying looks like this:



Of course there is another bag very similiar to this one that says Southdown....they are both the same thing. If I can find a picture of the Southdown bag I will post that also.

[wave_happy]

WOW!!

Lots of great information. You are the GURU of Southdown Sand!

[Jaten]

Chuck, Thanks for the clarification. So are the terms "100% Natural," "sterilized" and "carribean sand" the keywords to look for? I noted that sku578-819 appeard on Grumpy Vets receipt, but did I understand that that sku applies to other grades of sand as well.

[Grumpy Vet]

Guru of Southdown......

I kinda like it....I found my niche....Yippeeee. Funny - I don't even really use it that much. I use CC. When I have time - I like to try and help people on boards I frequent - especially when they have been helpful to me. I don't know much - but I do know how to surf the web and make phone calls.

The picture of Southdown sandbags looks like this (borrowed from "Guy" on .Org board):



I don't really know for sure if the stuff pictured in the thread above is Southdown or not.

What I do know - is that the stuff pictured in this post here is, as you can read clearly on the bags, Southdown.

Very plainly put - Home Depot SKU 578819 is a GENERIC SKU for playsand. In the northeast - getting that sku means the sand can be 1 of 5 vendors. One of which, is Southdown. Out of the northeast - getting that SKU almost assuredly means it is not Southdown (according to Southdown and Home Depot) unless special arrangements have been made.

The problem lies with what the other sands are made out of by the other manufacturers. Are they aragonite based? Do they have the same makeup in particulate size? Do they have harmful nuclear waste interspersed throughout?

Dunno.

I would hate to see someone put something harmful, or anti-helpful in their tanks. I would also hate for anyone to go through the expense of getting this sand to find out it was not what they thought it was.

GV

[3_high_low]

HD in Natick MA, Salem MA, both had it 3 weeks ago.
HD in W. Roxbury MA, South End Boston MA, Norwood MA all did not.
Add that to the data bank

[Jaten]

Grumpy Vet, Many thanks from me and anyone else who needed it v-e-r-y s-l-o-w a-n-d s-i-m-p-l-e. I'm not always obtuse.....just sometimes. Thanks again

[Mako]

Grumpy-
Same stuff, different bag....of this I am sure!

Jaten-
When you are talking to them make sure you use this to verify if it's what you want.

SouthDown Tropical Play Sand
SKU # 578-819
UPC # 0-210026-16865-5
Model # 420-100

[Grumpy Vet]

That's very good to know that it is the same stuff mako- Hopefully you didn't think I was calling you a liar - just was not sure.

When I do my dissertation for my PHD on types of play sand and the supply chain of big box retailers - I will include this bit of information.....

Who woulda thunk it would be this involved.....wow

[Mako]

Grumpy -

Nah!!! I don't think like that. Life's too short.

[TAC]

A few clarifications.

I had it transferred to Columbus, Georgia at no cost shipping cost.

The sand actually comes from a company in Florida that gets it from the Carribean. Southdown just repackages it. "Goby" has gotten the sand from the guy's in Florida.

Terry

[john f]

Can Goby tell us guys here in Florida how to get some?


John

[Grumpy Vet]

That is really interesting to note. Hopefully "Goby" could tell us some more information about who he got it from in FL. I know a lot of Floridians are looking for the stuff.

When I spoke to Southdown - they kept saying that they manufactured it. Perhaps the customer service person did not know the whole scoop or something else is out of whack.

I just would love to get to the bottom of this - get the straight story......ya know.....the unadulterated truth, the lowdown, the skinny on the enigma we call "Southdown".


This is just a guess - but knowing the chain distribution way of selling things in the U.S.

Comes from Carribean to Florida guy:
50% markup =$1.13

Florida guy to Southdown
50% markup =$1.7

Southdown to Home Depot
50% markup = $2.55

Home Depot to Reefer
50% markup = $3.84 a bag?....

Crazy.......

[mgk65]

I have these additional notes regarding the SD sand:


DO NOT GET Yardright Select Multipurpose Play Sand. That is not the correct sand.

All of the sand is manufactured by SouthDown Inc. and only available in Home Depot stores from Eastern VA/ Baltimore MD, Philadelphia, PA through New York on the eastern seaboard.

The SKU is SKU#578819, but this may not be the correct type of sand given above.

It has been sighted in the following Home Depot stores:

Baltimore, MD
Germantown MD
Rockville, MD
Annapolis, MD
Ellicott City, MD
most other Wash DC metro area
Fredricksburg, VA
Springfield, VA
Fairfax, VA outside the D.C. beltway, on Merrifield Rd
Sterling, PA
Newton Square in Philadelphia, PA
Philadelphia, PA
Conshohocken, PA
Greenville, SC
Glasgow Home Depot, in Newark, DE
Newark, DE. In the People's Choice shopping center.

North Olmsted, OH
Cleveland, OH Area:
West Cleveland, OH
Macedonia, OH
Home Depot
6199 Wilson Mills Road
Highland Heights, Ohio

Patchogue, Long Island, NY on Sunrise Highway

Philipsburg NJ
Route 22 North (last exit in NJ going west on route 80) 1/2 mile up after exit on right
Burlington, NJ. On route 541 just off Interstate 295
Wallingford, CT
Waterford, CT



mgk