Reef Safe Angel

[UnderwaterExotic]

Has anyone out there had anyluck with an angel in a reef? Not Coral Beautys or Flames either. I am looking and looking for an angel for my soon to be 180 reef and someone told me that a navarcus angel they had was doing fine. Just give me some of your experiences if you would.

[ozadars]

Genicanthus angels are totally reef safe if you want an angel

[mattsilvester]

I presume you mean holocanthus / pomocanthus species?

Anyway, I am currently looking into the same sort of thing.

seen loads of pics, hear loads of stories over the last few years.

Julian sprung reckons that maculosus angels arereef safe, as are navarchus.

I think you'll find most a safe at varying levels.

Most will eventually eat clams and some LPS. Some may same various leathers and softies. Most don't touch sps.

generally, if it looks meaty and isn't all slimey, they'll probably eat it at some stage.

Its really a case of getting a juv and training him to eat nice yummy prepared foods. if they start to sample certain types of coral well then you gotta decide whats more important to you .... the coral or te fish. If you choose the fish then eventually you will discover the right species of corals that he will not eat.

But if you look around and take others experiences as a rule of thumb, then the navrchus is a good choice, and historically folks seem to have quite allot of luck with them, in general.

HTH
Matt

[JENnKerry]

Ozadars nailed it. The Japanese swallowtail or the Lamarck's angel would be great for a reef.

[UnderwaterExotic]

i am looking for a reef safe large angel!

[UnderwaterExotic]

ThX Matt have you heard anything on the bi-color. I am looking for a large angel hopefully jenkerry!

[mattsilvester]

bicolor, as far as I know is pretty similar to the queen, which as far as I know is really only safe with sps - though you could be lucky.

to be honest, the only angels I would even consider would be:

navarchus
blue face
emporer
maculosus
asfur

The regal is great for a reef but will probably die within 6 months.

The only reason I say the mac is because Sprung (I think, if not some other well known guy) says so, and I've seen pics.

Asfur, because I have seen pics with lots of different softies, mainly leathers.

Blue face and emporer - do a search here on rc and you'll see what I've seen - its 50 - 50 for all but sps, and pretty sure to be safe with sps.

navarchus - the only thing I've heard of them eating is clams really, and the odd LPS

Also, the Queen seems to be ok for sps - well the now famous (on RC) "Starboard Reef" by Bomber has a big queen with sps.

It will take you a few hours, but do a search on angels in the reef, and you'll get hundreds of hits......... but at the end of the day, its luck of the draw.

One other majorly important thing to consider - I know a 180 might seem like a big tank, but really its not. I just got one too (a 180 that is). By the time you have about 200lb of rock, and then by the time the corals grow - be they sps or softies, then a 180 will become a very tight space for a 12" fish - and most large angels get up and around 12" plus in the aquarium after a few years......... personally I wouldn't fancy a 12" mac or emporer charging around my reef - either tearing himself on corals or knocking them over. HOWEVER - the navarchus is a substantially smaller fish, I think they max out at around 8 or 9" in the aquarium, which is still a big fish, but ALOT smaller than 12". Look for a pic of a large angel online. magnify it on your pc monitor until it is 12" (if you have a big enough monitor)......... trace it on a bit of paper and then cut it out, put it next to your tank, and stand back............ you'll see what I mean!!! Then cut out the shape of a 8" navarchus and put it next to it..................

Anyway, hope this has helped your decision a little.
regards,
Matt

[UnderwaterExotic]

Thanks again Matt. Have you ever tried the Sohal tang then.. Obvioulsy as you can see i am looking for a "centerpiece" fish one a little bigger and more colorful than the others. If you have had lucjk with other fish in the past i am looking for suggestions too. Also dont know if you have tried elegance coral or not yet but i am definatle giving that a shot. Also am going to try the moorish idol. I at least have to try it, never know they could do fine and then i would of wished i tried one. lol thanks again matt

[UnderwaterExotic]

i should add i am keeping LPS and softies!

[LargeAngels]

Personally I have had great luck with species in this picture. Strangely the worst on yet has been the flame angel. Feed heavily. Large protein skimmer. But none are 100% safe so make sure you have a plan to remove any that does pick on anything.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

[ozadars]

Originally posted by cmwilliamson
i am looking for a reef safe large angel!

Genicanthus angels are not dwarfs, they are large angels

[drtango]

I added a juvinile Imperator angel two weeks ago, he's already eating flake and pellet food (along with the sponge based Angel formula) and has been a model citizen. The only living thing I can see that he's touched are the tiny featherdusters in the rockwork.

I went through all the posts I could find, and it seemed like the majority of posters have had reasonable luck with this Angel.

As he grows, he can go ahead and munch some Zoo's if he wants, or even my frogspawn, as long as he leaves the SPS and clams alone.

I read that it's key to get a juvi and let him grow into the system. The next trick is to find a healthy specimen.

John

[GreatBarrierReef04]

If you have a concern about space and growth look into Pomicanthus Annularis. They are a large angel but dont get to much larger than 8 inches when full grown. Still like its cousin the Emporer, it is going to NIP at certain corals...... They will nip at Zoos, LPS, SPS, and Mushrooms. In my personal experience mine did not have an interest in Leathers, but all others were fair game. Over the years I have not found a real REEF SAFE large angel and I have had most of the large ones French, Koran, Cortez, Emporer, Queen, Asfer and a few others that had to be taken back to the wholesaler.......

Best Wishes,
GBR

[proenca]

Well, for what is worth, here goes my experience :

I had a dream ( no, this isnt my Luther King inpersonating ) : to have a large angel in a reef tank.

So , my LFS was compreensive and I made a deal with him : he had dozens of large angels in juvenile form.. So I picked one, setup a special tank ( later on this ) and if the angel was model citizen, I would pay for it .

My first task was to setup a angel-are-you-model-citizen-? tank. This was a 40gallon tank with some live rock, water changed daily from the main tank ( so that the angel could accostumate to tha main tank water ) and a powerhead. It also sported some fragments of corals from my main tank : two tiny acroporas, some LPS and actinodicus, capnella and sarcopython corals.

Then I went shopping.

My dream was to have a Emperor Angel.. they are so beautifull, arent they ? Well.. I bought like 6 of them ( not at the same time ! one each time ! ) but after a couple of months, all of them went after the LPS or the actinodiscus.

A Queen was next. Bought one, imidiattly attacked the acro. Removed it, trade it and with the second one, things were the same.

Next angel : Koran ( Pomacanthus Semicirculatus ) . Beautifull specimen. Was ALMOST putting it in the main reef tank ( almost two months, never bother the corals ) , started to eat the actinodiscus with gusto.

Back to the store.

this time, I saw a magnificient, fantastic, marvellous specimen of a Narvachus. gosh.. I knew I had to try it so I did.

Two months in the are-you-bla-bla-tank and never even looked to the corals.

Plunge him to the main reef.

Lived happily for 12 months, never touched the corals ( well, a bite here or there in the polyps, but were really nip, he wasnt touching them ). The key is to keep them WELL feed and these guys do eat with gusto , once they acclimate. He loved nori sheets that I gave to my tangs every day with SELCO.

I think this, along with a adult sohal that grown up from juvenile in my tank, is the fish with the most fantastic colours I withnessed.

So I start buying some things and one day I entered my store and the LFS owner said to me : come here, big import from Egypt, Red Sea critters and fish all over the place.

Since my aquarium was a Red Sea biotope ( execption from the narvachus ) I was gobbled by the metalic blue and long fins of a young Pomacanthus Asfur that was there.

I said "HOLD THIS FISH FOR A WEEK!". He did and I ran home setting up the are-you-a-bla-bla-bla tank again.

Put the asfur on it and it was ok for two months and plunge into the reef.

He was a model citizen until the day he rampaged on the narvachus and killed him. when angels grow, terriotorial things CAN get really nasty. Bear in mind that the Narvachus was like 10" and the asfur was 8" and this is a 180 gallon tank with plenty room. Not enough for two angels.

So I guess that Asfur and Narvachus are pretty model citizens on the reef tank. Nevertheless, I would setup a experience tank like mine before tanking the plunge. I'd better see a juvenile angle to eat some frags than a 4 or 10 year old colonie.

Asfur did some ocasionally nipping on the tridacnas , so bear that in mind. Narvachus didnt care about them.

Narvachus is a little less more "itchy" regarding diseases.

About 1 month ago, my tank FULLY crashed. I was away working ( for full 4 months ) and the tank got full of algae and everything died. The only two fishes that survived in a algae tank ( loads of 40g buckets FULL of algae were tanken OUT of the tank ) were a Zebrasome Xanthurum and.. the Asfur, healty and fat as a pig.

Best regards,

[teog]

I just added a full size blue face in my mainly acro tank. In just a week he ate all my mushrooms. Hasnt touched any hard corals though. I was glad for the shrooms since they were taking over the tank.

[gofor100]

tagging...

[Gary Majchrzak]

proenca- great post. Do you have any pics of your aquarium available anywhere?