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  #51  
Old 07/11/2007, 11:05 AM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 14 - Wednesday 11th - Around 9:00am

Once again I manually turned the lights on the tank this morning to discover a surface film. I looks like that algae are forming little patches of about 5 millimeters on the water surface. Some of them seem to have pods attached to them... Very strange. Never seen anything similar in fresh water.

I checked again for nitrites - way in the red...

More than 1000 views on this thread: Wow!
Thanks all for visiting!
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  #52  
Old 07/11/2007, 11:30 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Laurent - nitrItes or nitrAtes? Have you checked the nitrAtes yet to see if you have the bacteria growing yet that will turn nitrites into nitrates?
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  #53  
Old 07/11/2007, 02:28 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Laurent - on that surface film I'd advise keeping the tank level just a bit below the black rim, so that you can see a little air space at the top of the gate - that will allow the film to be able to be be pulled into the back compartment.

Then move the gate up a bit at a time till it starts skimming the surface. If you move the gate up too much the water level in the back compartment will drop too much and the pumps will start pulling in air & making more microbubbles in the tank.

I'd also keep one of the powerheads pointing up enough that you get some ripples on the surface - that will also help break up that film, plus get more oxygen transfer into the water.
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Last edited by Reefmack; 07/11/2007 at 02:34 PM.
  #54  
Old 07/11/2007, 09:49 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 14 - Wednesday 11th - Around 7:00pm

I went to Fred Meyer after work and got a bottle of wine and most importantly a turkey "blaster", the biggest model I could get.

After that I went to the LFS to get one additional rock to complete my "mountain" of LR. I also get some rock rumbles to visually balance a bit more the lower part of the aquascape. They do not carry the "fresh" product recommended by ReefMack so I passed on the NitroBac equivalent they proposed me.

When home, I started to pump around the rocks and remove some slimy algae with the "blaster". It seems that I have a lot of decaying organic stuff on the rocks and I removed a bunch of cr*p.

After a while, the "crapstorm" calmed down and I tested again for Nitrites (NO2) and it is still above 1 ppm. Then I tested for nitrates (NO3) and it is above 50ppm. I did not perform a test with diluted water. My preliminary conclusion is that I have so much of a die-off on the rocks that the bacteriae cannot handle the situation. I would verry much appreciate your comments about the above...

Temperature was 35C/98F in Seattle today - an all time record - and even 104F on the Eastside, farther from the ocean! Temperature in the tank had reached 32C/88F when I came home. I immediately open the hood to get more evaporation and less heat. The extra cooling fan is certainly totally useless, pumping air in the circulation chamber. Opening the skimmer lid will help much more. I have no idea if the high temperature are stimulating or inhibiting the cycling process. Anyone?

I got my replacement timer in the mail tonight. It was mailed last Friday, the day after my phone call. I called them at 11am Pacific, 2pm Texas time. Not too bad, RedSea, thanks! Now, I have to remove the hood, disconnect the lights, dissassemble the lighting system, etc, etc... The instructions leaflet is about 20 pages!!! The beauty of integration indeed!!! I will do that tomorrow, hopefully.

ReefMack: I have adjusted the orientation of the pumps heads. Thanks. The gate seems to be just fine... Most of the surface stuff is now gone.
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  #55  
Old 07/11/2007, 10:00 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 14 - Wednesday 11th - Around 8:00pm

And here is now how look the "blastered" rocks...



Better aquascaping?
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  #56  
Old 07/11/2007, 10:55 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 14 - Wednesday 11th - Around 9:00pm

Allright... one more picture for tonight...

Please tell me this is a cool feather duster and not the dreaded aiptasia!!!
Thanks!

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  #57  
Old 07/12/2007, 12:43 AM
Rue Rue is offline
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Looks like a cool feather duster to me!

I don't suppose there's any way for you to make your photos faster to load? I'm watching your tank progression with interest, because you're only 3 days behind me...

Sadly...I literally live in the middle of nowhere...on dial-up...and the pictures load so slowly that I often have to give up...
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  #58  
Old 07/12/2007, 12:47 AM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Rue: I am using flicker to host my pics and you can also see them here :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43611209@N00/

at the resolution of your choice.
Hope that helps. Thanks for the ID!

PS: Check out the Seattle by Night pix while you're there...
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  #59  
Old 07/12/2007, 06:40 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Laurent: Yes - as Rue said - a featherduster - good to see you finding life on the rock! Good to hear that directing the flow upwards from one of the powerheads helped break up the surface film.

On that additional back fan - have you popped out that piece of plastic in the hood (behind the skimmer compartment) meant for the chiller access? If not, that should improve the cooling since the hot air will have a place to exit.

I think using the turkey blaster frequently for a while to get that dead & decaying stuff from the rock out of the tank will go a long way to get your cycle completed. Be sure to clean the white pad frequently too - the buildup of crap blown off the rock will generate a lot of nitrates too. On the good side, having all those nitrates indicates that you have the right bacteria types working for you now.

When you pull the hood, you may as well pull the pumps too and remove the bio-media and carbon (if you have them in) and rinse them out in some siphoned tank water - that'll help clean out any nitrate generating gunk that may have built up on those. Use tank water, not tap water, so you don't kill any of the good bacteria you want to keep. If you haven't been doing any water changes it might be a good idea to start a change of about 10% at least weekly to get the nitrate level reduced.

Looks like the timer replacement will be a hassle - just take your time and based on the feedback I got earlier on what's involved in replacing the fans be sure not to strip (or lose) any of the plastic screws, etc.

Rue - I didn't realize you were on dial-up. That does make things like the pics take a while to load. I usually try to reduce the file size on my pictures to 640x480 or whatever before I upload them to photobucket, so that they load faster in the threads.
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  #60  
Old 07/12/2007, 12:13 PM
Snowboarda42 Snowboarda42 is offline
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Laurent,

Glad to see your tank is doing well, I followed your link from RF when you were first asking about buying the tank. Looks like I'm a little behind. I'll be following this one for sure.

Have you decided what you want to keep as far as Livestock?

Keep up the good work, remember patience is key in this hobby. Next step is to let the 'trates fall and add a clean up crew to take care of the algae you have. PM me here or on RF if you have any questions about the cleanup crew or whatever.

BTW, what game company do you work for if you don't mind me asking?
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  #61  
Old 07/13/2007, 12:08 PM
MAXreefer MAXreefer is offline
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Hi Laurent,
Have been gone for a while but I am back now and hope you don't mind jumping in here?
Have my RSM running for about 5 months now and went through all the big and little pains like you.
Your tank looks really nice. Like the aquascaping a lot. Just one quick question: Do your rocks touch the sides of the tank?
I had mine doing that in the beginning and it became a big pain to keep the sides clean. I had to move them so they don't touch anymore and now it is so much easier to keep the glass clean. There is now enough space between the glass and the rocks my magnet cleaner can move easily there.
You have quite some LR in there so IMO you can safely remove that bag with the bio cubes in the last chamber. They won't do a lot and without them you will have a better flow in the back chambers.

I think you mentioned in one of your earlier post if you should add another powerhead in the tank to get more flow?
I added a Koralia#2 (don't try the #3 as this one is way to strong for the RSM) and my corals are doing so much better. Also there is now so much more flow in there which helps to keep the LR and the sand clean. Also it helps to slow down the growth of algea on the glass.

Added also a cheap Hydor Flo ($10.00) on one of the powerheads. The Hydor Flo rotates by itself and spreads the water in all directions which helps to break up that oily film you get from time to time on the surface.

Anyways. You are definetly doing great there and hope you keep us informed about your progress.

Michael
P.S. Have a look at my little website if you like. Lots of pics (not the newest ones) and a little video there.

A pic with the Koralia and Hydor Flo installed :



  #62  
Old 07/13/2007, 03:09 PM
nbaker nbaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAXreefer
Just one quick question: Do your rocks touch the sides of the tank?
I had mine doing that in the beginning and it became a big pain to keep the sides clean. I had to move them so they don't touch anymore and now it is so much easier to keep the glass clean. There is now enough space between the glass and the rocks my magnet cleaner can move easily there.
Hi Maxreefer,

Are your rocks touching the glass anywhere in the tank?

Not got my RSM yet but aquascaping the live rock is one issue that I keep thinking about, i.e. best way to stack, do I need to use milliput, should I use a reef rack, is it safe to stack against the glass etc.

Sorry to hijack your thread Laurent, really enjoy your updates & your latest aquascape is great, plenty of nooks & crannies for livestock to hide.

Regards

Nige.
  #63  
Old 07/13/2007, 11:06 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 16 - Friday 13th - Around 8pm

Sorry... no updates yesterday night. I was really really busy replacing the timer.

Opening the RSM hood is definitely more than a kick in the butt... It is a major PAIN. The worst part was indeed the screw covers... No less than two hours of effort to discover that the timer was improperly connected. One more hour to figure out that the bad connections had fried it. One more hour to get electrical connectors at the Home Depot and finally one more hour to test and put back everything into place... Obviously RedSea do not QA-Test this part before shipping to customers and this is VERY BAD!

Yesterday night, Nitrites were way in the red - above 1ppm - and, today are a bit in the pink - probably somewhere between 0.5 and 1ppm. Hopefully, it is maybe now time to think about the cleanup crew...

Good news: Brown diatoms are receding. Slimy algae are receding. Now are blooming light green algae that look like turf, some of the rocks, plenty on the glass. I can see here and there some pods, without having to actively search for them. Good signs, I believe.

I found out yesterday night, when dealing with the hood, that one of the pump was not pumping much less that its twin sister (pumps are feminine gender, right?) The pump intake was swallowing a bit the sock of the carbon filter. I put a small layer of floss on top of the carbon bag to keep it at bay from the pump. I have now much better circulation and consequently no surface film at all today. Furthermore, the tank is also now absolutely clear of microbubbles.

I also very religiously used the turkey "blaster" to clean up the rocks, very effective indeed.

I plan my first water change either tomorrow or Sunday if nitrites keep on going down. It should be a big one, right? Something like 10-15gallons/ 30-40 liters..

Your questions/remarks:

- Yes, I have tried to leave enough room on the sides so that I can clean with a magnet cleaner. I do not plan to clean the back side - I hope that pink coralline algae will soon colonize the area so that the machinery that's behind will become totally invisible. Therefore, I am using the back face to stabilize some rocks.

- I think I will order the HYDOR FLOW thingy next time I order something online from MarineDepot. Cheap and it cannot hurt.

- The Koralia pump is unfortunately another eyesore. I will try to avoid it for now since my plan is to stick with "easy" corals.

- The cleanup crew: If everything goes well, I will get next weekend - not tommorow - half a dozen of snails and maybe only one blue legged hermit. The Red-legged ones are getting too big. I have been researching the subject and I finally decided on:

* Astrea
* Cerith
* Nerite
* Paper Bulla (Not often talked about but get awesome "reviews" in my book!)

No Turbo or Margarita, as I have read many times that they are temperate or cold water species. I also plan a truckload of empty shells for the potentially agressive hermit.

- The planned future livestock

A carpet of Zoanthids,
Two or three Feather Dusters, ( Sabellastarte sp. )
Two or three Shrimps ( Lysmata, Alpheaus sp. )
Three fishes, no more, maybe :
* Amblygobius goby ( Court Jester )
* Nemateleotris decora ( Firefish )
* Amblyeleotris guttata ( Orange spotted goby )

If all these guys can live happy together, I will declare SUCCESS...

Thanks all for visiting.
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  #64  
Old 07/13/2007, 11:46 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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MaxReefer: Very nice video indeed... Lovely fishes. Music is a bit too repetitive though...

Snowboarda42: I work on developing a new franchise for Wizards of the Coast. I cannot and will say more... at least for a while.
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  #65  
Old 07/14/2007, 07:06 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Laurent - Now I'm really dreading replacing the fans in the hood!I'd recommend that you send RSM support an email on what you found with the timer. They may need to do some additional training (or termination) with their production staff to be sure that they are aware of what's going on so that they can take some steps to prevent it in the future.

The tank progress sounds good, as does the fish/critter selection. No problems with the turbos here, but astreas is a good choice too. Never heard of Paper Bulla snails - I'll have to search on those.

On the water change I'm not sure what to tell you. I've been doing about 3-4 gallons weekly since I set up the tank, but I never had a measurable cycle. 15g may be a bit much, but that's just an opinion based on nothing LOL. I never clean the back either - I leave that to the snails & lawnmower blenny. I'm now starting to get coralline growth on the back - plus the coralline seems to love the plastic parts in the tank - the gate, the powerheads, the Hydor Flo, and the Koralia - they get quicker coraline growth than the glass.

Water change day here today, and a trip to the lfs.
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  #66  
Old 07/14/2007, 09:53 AM
GrandeGixxer GrandeGixxer is offline
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Turbos and Astreas are the same.
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  #67  
Old 07/14/2007, 09:59 AM
GrandeGixxer GrandeGixxer is offline
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My bad, they are not the same. Turbos are way bigger. I forget these things over the years.
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  #68  
Old 07/14/2007, 06:28 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 17 - Bastille Day - Around 4pm

The tank is now turning green with more and more green "turf" algae on the glass, some on the sand, some on the rocks. My only feather duster is doing well so far. He is the only hitch hiker I have found so far. It seems like that there is also some kind of white translucent tunicate on another rock, but I am not sure... I will post a picture tomorrow.

I tested again nitrites and this is still above 0.5ppm, probably close to 1.0. Then I tested for NH3/NH4 to found out 0.25ppm. I tried to see if something was rotting in the rocks or behind but found nothing special...

I know that in FW amonia is inhibiting nitrifying bacteriae so I searched books and the Internet and got confirmation that it is the same thing in salt water. Therefore, after cleaning up the mechanical filters, I made a 4 gallons water change, that's a bit more than 10%. Hopefully that will help speed up the cycling process because very soon herbivore snails will be much needed to keep the green algae under control.
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  #69  
Old 07/14/2007, 08:40 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent. Hopefully the water change will help. That transparent tunicate may be a sponge. I get quite a few of them - some are small & almost transparent with one or two holes - they almost look like a film on the rock. Others are round & ball shaped and I have one long yellow one on the back side of my rock. I even have some roundish ones that are almost back.
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  #70  
Old 07/15/2007, 01:29 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 18 - Sunday 15th - Around 11am

I tested again for nitrites earlier this morning, still somewhere 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm.

I searched the forums to find out what other people had to say about persistent high nitrites levels when starting a new tank. Well, that's almost always the same story, they mostly all use uncured live rocks. Massive die-off creates a lot of amonia, nitrites, nitrates... The recommended solution is always the same:

- 1 - Patience - because cycling takes at least 4 weeks - often 6 weeks - instead of two or three.

and

-2- One or even two massive water changes - up two 50%.

This is a bit annoying for me because I got equipment to make routine water changes: 3 to 5, 4 gallons typically. Now I wonder how I will manage a 16 gallons water change. I will appreciate any suggestions.

I also a bit annoyed by how LiveAquaria.com present their products - not really noob friendly. The picture below shows the rocks and on top of the "mountain" an almost white piece. This one I bought recently at the LFS. "Cured" obviously has very different meanings depending on where you shop.

Here is the pic anyway - I partially clean the front glass and you can see on the left of the picture the turf algae that seem to be willing to colonize the entire tank.



I will soon need the first workers of my cleanup crew to arrive to mow all this grass. But first, nitrites have to go down to zero ...

Here is now a closeup shot of one the rocks. I wonder what are these three green spot. Please ID them if you can. There is also a star like thingy on the bottom-left: Another tiny feather duster?



Thanks all for visiting!
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  #71  
Old 07/15/2007, 02:39 PM
Rue Rue is offline
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The guys are discussing water changes here:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1163298
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  #72  
Old 07/15/2007, 04:10 PM
RobSW1 RobSW1 is offline
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unless you already have livestock in the tank i wouldnt even do a water change until the cycle is complete......let things take its course.

if you feel obligated to do one, then only do a small one...Ie. 3-4 gallons.

The rock you got from your LFS is cured to the point where there looks to be no life on it.....not really what you want.. id say the rock that you have in the tank looks good.

Once you dont have NITRITES anymore and only have NITRATES, i would do a water change and add a CUC....for the Green hair algea i see in the pics i would reccommend some scarlet reef hermits.....they really are only active at night, but they tear that stuff up.
  #73  
Old 07/15/2007, 04:16 PM
GrandeGixxer GrandeGixxer is offline
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That whit piece looks like Tonga. It often comes in like that looking all white. I wold take the other stuff you got from F&S over that any day.
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  #74  
Old 07/15/2007, 05:42 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent. What test kits are you using, or are you using a strip test. The strips are notoriously inaccurate & if that's what you're using I'd get one of the solution tests. I'd hate to see you thinking that you have nitrites, and postponing a CUC, if you really don't have the nitrites.

I think a 50% water change would be a real pain - if it was me I'd just start smaller ones more frequently.

Are those "green spots" algae round and shiny? If yes it's probably bubble algae (vallonia - sp?). Can be a nuisance but I've always found the ones I had easy to remove - the shell is pretty tough. Some say if you break them they spread & other say that'a a bunch of BS. If I remember correctly emerald crabs may eat the small bubbles. That white "star" - hard to tell - might be a duster or one of those tiny asterina stars. Looks like too many legs for the star though.

The cured LR from my LFS looks like your piece. It'll darken up eventually & you may be pleasantly surprised by the life on it. I see a lot of little featherdusters. etc. on the white rock in my lfs's tank.
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  #75  
Old 07/15/2007, 06:51 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Hi ReefMack,

I am using the solution tests that come with the Red Sea Starter Kit. "Pro" stuff, they say... To stay on the safe side, a little while ago, I tested my tap water - no nitrites, just a bit of nitrates - and my RO/DI water - no nitrites, no nitrates at all. Sounds logical. Thanks for the continuous advice!


I went again to LiveAquaria.com, clicked every possible link, and finally found that they do recommend a weekly 50% water change during and after cycling... Considering all advices posted here by more experienced reefers, I will wait for a while and see how things do evolve with time.

Other notes:

- Skimmer is now working overtime... producing a LOT of stinky stuff.

- Microbubbles are back.

- Pods: Here and there. Just a handful of them.

- Turkey "blasting" the rocks produce less and less 'cr*p' in the water. Healthier rocks, hopefully..

Thanks all.
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