|
|
|
|
#426
12/05/2007, 11:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Joe,
Your post was fine until the last couple paragraphs discussing your products and plans. Feel free to discuss LED's as an industry and technology, but keep your own product discussions out of this please. Refer to our [ua] for guidance.
__________________
Mike RC Staff "So, Mike was right." - MalHavoc |
|
#427
12/05/2007, 09:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Mike,
You are correct. In my response I did discuss my business plans. I ask you delete that posting. I will be focusing on other things versus responding to posters. If anyone wants to talk, how do I talk with them without posting on the site? I have no problem with you or anyone on staff monitoring those communications in order to ensure compliance. I am just tired of dealing with all the other pieces that have become part of this exchange. Please let me know. Regards,
__________________
Joe Ramirez |
|
#428
12/05/2007, 10:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
See that little icon that says 'pm'?
__________________
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
|
#430
12/05/2007, 10:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
See that little glowing red text at the bottom of every PM dialog box? Use of the Reef Central private messaging system is subject to the terms and conditions described in the User Agreement. Use of the system for unsolicited advertisement or harassment will result in a permanent, non-negotiable revocation of posting privileges. Clicking the 'Send Message' button indicates that you have read and understand this agreement.
__________________
Mike RC Staff "So, Mike was right." - MalHavoc |
|
#431
12/05/2007, 10:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I assumed that hahn meant someone could pm Joe if they wanted more info.
|
|
#432
12/05/2007, 11:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I dunno my Solaris is one of the first ones off the press and my tank is awe inspiring. I wow the public and kiddies. It's all about the animals.My clam in the sand doubled in a little over a year. And he's 24" down! No heat,less algae. Good and bad but the rocks are all purple now. Haven't bought a bulb. No controllers to mess with. No clutter,ballasts blah blah blah. ALL solar and lunar cycles match nature...in my hemispere. I dunno expensive who wants to match receipts. I'll bet in the long run we all spend about the same. My buddy is setting up a 46 gallon bow and he's in about 3500 and not a fish swimming yet and 1/4 of coral in. He'll be in about 4500 by the end of the month. My 90 w/ Solaris about 6500.00 Its fitting I have twice the tank. LOL Maybe solaris just looks nice and is super convenient but it also does work. It is sufficient. Sorry acro's grow too. Real nice. SO I'm sure LED technology has a long way to go but will it matter for our reef's? Do we have to go to the moon to grow a shroom? I think if you ask anyone who owns the light you'll find not too many issues. It's plug and play night and day. Frankly there are many more expensive MH set ups so I feel like I robbed the bank. Lighten up Its all good.
Joe
__________________
JMCHZN This reef insures my kids get nothing! |
|
#434
12/06/2007, 12:32 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
a Honda and a Porsche both travel 25 miles in 25 minutes. How fast was the Honda going?
1 MILE PER MINUTE you say. Correct I say. How fast was the Porsche going? 1 MILE PER MINUTE you say. Correct I say. Which car would you rather have they both get you there the exact same time? AHHH The Porsche you say. But wait the Porsche costs 60,000.00 more. What a watse you say. EXACTLY. I'll take the Porsche.
__________________
JMCHZN This reef insures my kids get nothing! |
|
#435
12/06/2007, 12:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
  Quote:
http://www.ledreeflights.com/Contact..._Research.html ^^^ "E-mail us at jcltok@cox.net or call at 918.230.5789 between 8 am and 6 pm Central"
__________________
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
|
#436
12/06/2007, 12:45 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Not what you meant, I know...  But I think the point is that the value is subject to the consumer's values in the end. Id take a Honda FCV over a Porche even, or heck, a Tesla... never have to buy gas again. Then I could drive drive drive like when I was 16. You might value style/prestige, I might place efficiency and reliability above that.
__________________
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
|
#437
12/06/2007, 12:52 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I for one would rather this discussion continue here on the open forum so that we all may gleen some information out of it. Just do away with the commercial talk and continue the discussion. Some (like me) may not have any input, but we are all learning something through this thread
__________________
Jeff |
|
#441
12/06/2007, 09:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#442
12/06/2007, 10:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
http://www.ledreeflights.com/Contact..._Research.html
Seriously is this a joke? its almost like someone read all of hahns and beans posts and then made a website as a joke, to poke fun at them. i am so lost, Someone who gets this PM me please....,.. |
|
#443
12/06/2007, 10:40 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
All I know is I love my Solaris , my SPS corals have better color than they have ever had . They are growing very quickly and I am going to have to learn to frag as they are growing into each other . I have sunrise , sunset every day . The tank runs about 2 degrees cooler and I don't need a chiller . I don't have a meter to measure par , lumens , lux or any other measure of light . All I have to do is look at the corals and the results speak for themselves .
|
|
#444
12/06/2007, 12:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I love the high tech controller too  Definitiely Porsche prestige here folks
|
|
#445
12/06/2007, 12:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have made a diy led light that has the same light output of the new solaris system but cost a lot less, I have had it up and running for two months now and coral growth is better on the led side of the tank then the half I left as the control side using a 10k XM 175 watt metal halide and two 96 watt actinic compact fluorescents, I have the capability of lighting the blue 455nm leds separate from the 6500k leds but do not have the fancy controller. that the solaris has the way I see it we have all been growing corals by turning the lights on first blue then white. so I do not know what the advantage of the controller is. I would love some one to tell me how it helps the corals grow (this is a sincere request) to see if it is worth trying to make a controller.
I have $385.00 in the system and it runs on 88.5 watts of power and looks beautiful and to answer the question of does it glimmer oh yea! I put this out because I am curious to see if there is enough of an interest to write it up here on rc and make a diy website to show how it is done. if there is then I will put one up if not then I will not waste the money on web space. |
|
#447
12/06/2007, 12:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade (Click on the Red House to see my pics garage) |
|
#449
12/06/2007, 03:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
This part got me as well... "What is the research you mention? As a reef hobbyist, I have been highly frustrated by the "rules of thumb" others throw out. I wanted to really know what was needed for a healthy aquarium. Consequently, I studied some available research!" So... I suppose watts per gallon is back in? Lol. I wonder what 'rules of thumb' are being dug up here. "Kelvin is a measure of light as perceived by the eye " He should mention its a measure of color, not quantity. He pretty much just gave the definition of the photometric scale there. "With the current interest in blue lights, many MH manufactures load a bulb with violet/blue emitting phosphors and generally ignore the rest of the 400nm to 700 nm spectrum. This provides a high Kelvin light, but not a balanced spectrum corals need to live. Consider that many corals kept in an aquarium grow in 1 foot to 50 feet of sea water and you can understand the lack of a complete spectrum may negatively affect some coral growth that lives closer to the surface." This is actually false, and the other way around. Loading up on blue wouldnt 'cheat' the PAR meters, or Lux meters, since they are slightly LESS sensitive to blue (or in the case of a Lux meter waaay less sensitive to blue) than red or green. I think its pretty obvious that Joe has confused Kelvin as a measure of quantity rather than what it is... a measure of spectrum. The irony to this statement is that corals live in 5-30m of depth... where the spectrum of light is heavily weighted in the purple and blue spectrum. He even mentions it later on that page... "At a depth of 15 feet, you lose the entire red and orange spectrum. By 30 feet, you lose the yellow spectrum. By the 50 foot depth, you have lost the green spectrum and all that if left is the violet/blue light (LIVEAQUARIA.Com). Since the corals we grow in our tanks can vary in their needs, we need to offer the coral the wavelengths and intensity of light they need." So he wonders why higher K bulbs are used?!?!? He just explained why. The section titled: "What about PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation)?" is irrelevant. In a captive system, unless we have a tank that is 5-30m deep, we dont want to match the intensity of the sun at sea level. We want to match the intensity of the sun where the corals are... often in the 50-100 micromol/m2/s range for lower light corals, up to 550 for most higher light acro types (some go as high as 700, but thats pretty much the limit in a captive reef). If we produced levels of 1800-2500 at the surface like in the ocean, the sandbeds of most of our tanks would still be at 1000!!! By now, this should just give you a chuckle... "So, it is easy to fool a meter by loading it with violet/blue wavelengths, get good PAR and not receive the rest of the spectrum corals may need." ... because its totally false. "Lumen measures are not the best solution, but certainly better than getting fooled by PAR measurements measured inappropriately." If anything, you can fool a Lumen meter with a bulb that is stacked in the Green-Red spectrums, although it could have little to no blue. You cant fool a PAR meter, which is there to weigh all spectrums evenly. Its based on the radiometric scale after all... the same as ohne of those spectrometer graphs. Are those being 'manipulated' as well? FWIW, its been proven that a light heavy in the blue/450-460nm wavelengths is the best for PUR. Dont believe me? Look at Dana Riddle's review of the PFO Solaris when it first came out, or ask him. He can 'educate' you. "Is there one recommended level of lighting? No. The lighting you need depends on the corals you keep and their needs. Fortunately, there is some research showing what types of corals need for healthy growth! As we have time to gather that information we will refer you to it!" Well, I hope once he gets that research he realizes where the errors are in his 'research' and refers people to the right information rather than the misinformation he has spread so far. Joe, my advice to you is to read... read alot. You need to re-evaluate your beliefs, and look for the flaws in your research. If you dont want to believe the 'experts' like Dana, Sanjay, etc... you should get yourself an Ocean Optics Spectralradiometer, take it underwater in the ocean, and realize how wrong you really are.
__________________
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
|
#450
12/06/2007, 04:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
This all started when I read a post here on rc where a diy guy asked the head of PFO what the leds he used where and what the colors were. I will not repost his response but it was rather harsh (which surprised me because he always seems like such a nice guy when people ask him questions, must be a sore spot with him) but it ended with go out and find out for yourself and then you will know. Well I am an engineer by trade and a statement like that is the same as throwing a pork chop to a starving Chihuahua… LOL so I went out and researched what he had done. So lets start we know from Dana Riddle’s write up that there are 13 blue and 12 white leds, that they are 3 watt and that they are Philips Lighting 3-watt Luxeon Emitter batwing design. Also used is a lens holder and a 45-42 degree lens to give the 45 degree in one direction and 42 degree in the other direction light spread. We know that it favors 431-480 nm light spectrum. For a refresher look here at the review. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2 So let’s look at the components closely. http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?i...rtno=LXHL-LR3C The blue emitter. LXHL-LR3C Specifications Lumens 450 mWMax Continuous Current 1000 mAForward Voltage 3.9 VfDominant Wavelength 455 nmLED Type StarRadiation Pattern LambertianWeight 5.5g 13 of these total of 450*13= 5850mW The white emitter. LXHL-LW3C Specifications Lumens 80 lm Max Continuous Current 1000 mAForward Voltage 3.9 Vf Dominant Wavelength 5500 KLED Type StarRadiation Pattern LambertianWeight 5.5g 12 of these total of 80*12= 960 lm The holder. http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?i...HS-HWB1-LL01-H Fraen lenses fit over top of any Luxeon I, III and V lambertian LED and efficiently focuses the output to a 40-45° beam of light. (Depending on the LED color.) These lenses come with a staked holder that holds the lens in position over the LED. For more information about how to use the staked holder, see the Heat Staking application note in the Additional Information section below. • Amber, Red LEDs - 40° beam • Blue, Cyan, Green LEDs - 42° beam • White LEDs - 45° beam • Up to 85% efficiency • Fits all Luxeon Lambertian LEDs (Except Star/O) • Software optimized aspheric profile Note: the 85% efficiency, this means we have 5850 mW* .85 = 4972.5 mW of blue light And 960 lm * .85 = 816 lm white light. For more reading on the led look at the full spec sheet here. http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS46.pdf How am I doing so far? The problem was building one of these using these components was going to be hard and expensive in the long run for a one off. Not to mention heat control was going hard at best. So at that point I had given up. Until two events happen. Number one, one side of my light housing gave up the ghost in a very spectacular fashion. I was now looking at buying a new icecap, a new xm 10k 175 bulb a two new 96 watt compact florescent tubes and new compact florescent ballasts, a total of $415.00+ in stuff. And two enter the rebel (http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS56.pdf ) all the color spectrums needed, the perfect light output and the perfect light throw (right up there with a spider reflector) in a very small package just one problem packaging. But not to fear within six months out came the rebel star ( http://www.luxeonstar.com/7007-endor-datasheet.pdf ), a diy dream come true (kind of). Remember the 816 lm white led output of the solaris? Well…. 7007-PWC-08-3 Specifications Lumens 240 lm @ 350mA 435 lm @ 700mA Max Continuous Current 1000 mA Forward Voltage 9.45 Vf Dominant Wavelength 6500KLED Type Tri-EmitterRadiation Pattern Lambertian Weight 5.5g 816 lm/435 lm = 1.8 rebel stars need. I used 5 at 435 lm to equal 2175 lm or 2175 lm / 816 lm= 2.66 times the out put of the stars the prototype Solaris used Now the blues that was hard. There is no one making or selling the rebels on a star. After some phone calls I was able to get the un-mounted pads and make them myself. I have since found a source for the blue stars. I used this rebel for the build. LXML-PR01-0275 Specifications Lumens 275mW @ 350mA 525mW lm @ 700mA Max Continuous Current 1000 mA Forward Voltage 3.15 Vf Dominant Wavelength 455 nmLED Type EmitterRadiation Pattern LambertianWeight 0.070238g Remember we were trying to meet the 4972.5 mW of power? 525 mW* 12 (four stars three rebels each) = 6300 mW or 6300 mW / 4972.5 = 1.26 times the light out put of the stars the prototype Solaris used. I am also giving you the numbers if you run the system at 700ma I am running my system at 800 ma so my light output is higher then these numbers. The rebel can be run at up to 1 amp as long as you have the heat dissipation handled. Look at both the pn junction temperatures in the pdf manuals and you will see one amp is easily attainable if you have the right heat sink. Constant current circuit was the next problem the easiest way to do that is using this link. http://www.instructables.com/id/Powe...stant-current/ The numbers he gives and the assumptions he has DO NOT work for the rebel but the transistor and FET were a perfect fit, the resistor values are different do your testing very carefully and do not assume anything. Also note that you can use one of the circuits to run the whole system or five or six modules but remember that just like in the Solaris if you lose a led you lose the whole string of leds in the case of Solaris it is a $300-$500 replacement. It took me $45 of parts to make each star have its own driver this way a failure of a star means an $11.00 replacement star. Also remember that the led lose light level over time 70% over 11 years a simple adding of a 100k resistor to each driver will bring up the light level back to original (increasing amps) as time goes on. I am not listing numbers right now because I am at work writing this and my notes are at home. Heat sink, here was the hard one, you have to get out 8-11 watts of heat not an easy task, I was lucky in that I found a heat sink that is way over kill for what I am doing at a local surplus supply house so this was not a problem, I did try bolting one star to a 12 x 4 x 0.25 inch plate and running one, the plate hit 250 degrees f in about 30 seconds. So pick your heat sink carefully, and use the best heat sink paste you can find (arctic silver works great). If there is more interest shown then I will set up a site with all the information and photos. I will probably put a donation link to help pay for the site. Any ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. So how did I do so far? Does anyone have any questions? I will post photos of the tank as soon as I figure out how to post them. As a side note, how do I know the led works better, more coral growth hard corals on the led side then the metal halide/pc side, better extension on polyps softies, zoos extend better, more calcium intake, and my clam added a new ridge. But the number one way I know the giant devils hand dead center between the two systems went from leaning toward the Metal halide sided of the tank toward the LED system side in about two days of running and is fighting for space to move over. Last edited by divernm; 12/06/2007 at 04:22 PM. |
|
|
Linear Mode
