What is killing fish?

kenwendyb · #1 12/22/2007, 01:52 PM

What is killing fish?
We have had tank 2 for 4 years. The only fish that have lived are black sailfin blennie, bristle star, hermit crabs, and snails that are reproducing and doing great. It seems as if something is killing very healthy fish. The last was a juvinile picasso and flame angel. The picasso seemed to be pulled into a rock and eaten. We have looked at pm hours with flashlight and red light and seen nothing. This has been going on for years and we cannot find the culprit. This is a 55 gal tub coral tank. We have tried live bait trapping over night and nothing. As I said the sailfin blennie has lived for over a year and goes up in all the rocks with no problem. Longest fish to live in tank was about 4 months and we have tried every shape and size fish. Thought we'd try some triggers and more agressive fish but the same results. Happy, healthy, hearty fish one day and dead or missing the next. Anyone have any ideas on what to do?

Hobby Experience: 2 tanks 5 years

Blown 346 · #2 12/22/2007, 02:39 PM

You definitly have a problem. Is this limited to one rock being the home of this animal?? If so take that rock out and you can 1 dunk it in very low or high salinity. Or in pure fresh water. FW will kill bacteria etc on the rock. I have done the FW method to get a large crab out. I did the low and high salinity and the crab wouldnt budge over a 15 minute period. I did very cold FW and out he flew.

Otherwise The only other option would be to take out each piec of rock, search in crevices and holes for the animal. Once you find it do either one of the methods above. If you dont find it in the rocks you will have to continue to bait traps etc, look at night with a flashlight with a red or blue filter so the light isnt bright and search and wait. Otherwise a normal flashlight will scare it into hiding. Keep us posted and let us know what happens. If you catch it take a pic, I would like to see what it was. Also becareful and where thicker gloves when handing the rock, if it is a mantis you dont want to get sliced open.

kenwendyb · #3 12/22/2007, 02:49 PM

Thanks! believe me if I catch whatever this is I will get pic. I have been looking for over a year with red light at pm. Would think by now would have seen or at least its growth by now from all the food would make it known. The rock I suspect its in is huge!! with a ton of crevices and holes. It is the center piece of display. How to treat it without destroying the rock as I would like to put back in? Thanks again for reply

Blown 346 · #4 12/22/2007, 04:49 PM

You dont have to destroy the rock perhaps. Once you take it out, you can even dump some FW into the rocks crevices and holes to help evacuate the guy. Then you wouldnt have to submerse the whole rock. But I would start by putting the rock into high salinity water to start, say 1.032 if no success, go a little higher.

J-Burns · #5 12/22/2007, 09:42 PM

Hi, what kind of Brittle star do you have? The Green serpent star will hunt and eat fish and arrow crabs.

alan214 · #6 12/23/2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Burns
Hi, what kind of Brittle star do you have? The Green serpent star will hunt and eat fish and arrow crabs.

That would be my first suspicion. Can you take the brittle star out, like in a quarrantine tank, etc.?

kenwendyb · #7 12/23/2007, 04:07 PM

Is a green brittle but not the culprit. Brittle was added about 6 months ago. When Picasso was killed witnessed him sticking 1\2 out of crevice and then finding skeletal remains next day. Brittle is fed well and doesn't do much. I was going to move to my other tank, but have been hesitant to do as I don't want to disrupt the balance in tank. Had the Picasso lived and we went in that direction with tank then would have moved star to tank 1. I have a very territorial Marroon Clown in there also Coral Beauty, Flame Hawk, Blennie, Bristle Tang, Dwarf Lion. I lost my Green Bird Wrasse due to age. I will be replacing him and adding a Volitan sometime in the next year. I'm very picky. Have been looking for the right volitan for 3 years...Anyhow, think adding Bristle Star to that community is not a good idea? Until we find Fish Killer in tank 2 we will not be doing anything with it. Come to think of it the star lost a leg and survived disc deterioration. We thought he was just damaged in our move(4 hrs) but, may have been attacked by whatever is in there. Next weekend we are going to do the high salinity and fresh water pour. I'll have camera ready!

Sk8r · #8 12/23/2007, 04:14 PM

Mmm. Asterina stars reproduce by shedding legs...which grow into more starfish.

I would be VERY suspicious of that green serpent star. Pulling a fish in and wedging him in a rock would be a real good way of both suffocating the fish and assuring he stays available as a lunch. There aren't very many fish killers that would wedge a fish in like that. A crab, maybe.

kenwendyb · #9 12/23/2007, 04:53 PM

We had hoped that he was just shedding leg but he developed holes and white spots and disc was disintegrating. We thought we were going to loose him. Diligent water changes and patience he pulled trough. He is never around when fish are killed though. He was clear on other side of tank when picasso was pulled into hole. He is just regular Ophiarachna Incrassata and deaths have been happening since way befor he was introduced. What you have said though makes me that much more likely to never put him in my tank 1. Thanks for input. You think fish is being stuffed in and not caught and pulled in? That makes me think too. Also, any imput as to why snails are reproducing and florishing along with hermits? Aren't these the more easy food for most of the killer suspects? That has puzzled me?

J-Burns · #10 12/24/2007, 12:22 AM

If you are sure it is not the Star and your tanks paramiters are good- the only other thing I can suggest is to take the rock that you think the killer is in and dump it in a tub of fresh water. It may be a crab or Mantis. Wear heavy gloves as Mantis can cut your hand. I would still get rid of the Star.

J-Burns · #11 12/24/2007, 12:29 AM

If you are sure it is not the Star and your tanks paramiters are good- the only other thing I can suggest is to take the rock that you think the killer is in and dump it in a tub of fresh water. It may be a crab or Mantis. Wear heavy gloves as Mantis can cut your hand. I would still get rid of the Star.

kenwendyb · #12 12/28/2007, 11:07 AM

So did low and high salinity and nothing! Decided to do freshwater pour and still nothing. Used screw driver in crevices and nothing. Did another rock in case had moved and nothing. Been watching tank and still nothing. Any other ideas? Should I just settle on having a 56 gal reef with a black sailfin blennie and green brittle as the only occupants? Not to mention the snail babies everywhere.

J-Burns · #13 12/28/2007, 02:43 PM

Are you sure that all your tank readings are good? Salinity, Ph, ect... The trigger fish will wedge themselves in rocks to sleep at night. Maybe they could be dying and then crabs eating them. They may even be sick when you get them. Do you quarantine ? I'm out of ideas.

kenwendyb · #14 12/28/2007, 03:07 PM

Yeah, tank readings are solid. The trigger was swimming around 2 hours earlier and eating befor saw him in crevice and it was still their daylight time. He was an active little dude. Out of all the fish we have had in there over the years some have lived for 4 months or so and no signs of disease or parasites. The black sailfin went in as a baby over 2 years ago. He has grown to over 2 inches and fat and happy. The hermit crabs though, It seems when the get to be a bit big I find them eaten too with just claws left. Figured it was just other ones eating them though. About quarantine- we took down our tank in june and have not set back up, so the Picasso and Flame were not, but they were fine for over 2 months before deaths. I am out of ideas too that is why asking you good people on the RC. I appreciate it! Any killer creatures out there that can eradicate suspected killers? At this point I'll try anything.

J-Burns · #15 12/28/2007, 03:28 PM

Well you could take out your fish and crabs and put in an octopi. If there is a crab or mantis it would find it. If you go this route you have to have a tight fitting top as it can escape from the smallist hole. Stay away from the blue ring though as it can kill you.

sanababit · #16 12/28/2007, 03:34 PM

mantis shrimp perhaps???, no clicking sounds
green serpent stars tend to be predators

sana

kenwendyb · #17 12/28/2007, 04:00 PM

Anyone need a green brittle star?? Octopi? How big and where to get. $#@% the crabs. The Blennie I can try to put in other tank. He should be ok with lion. What about corals and rooms. I have some Florida mushrooms been growing for years. I don't want to take any rocks out, obviously. Anything not as dangerous as Octo?

boxfishpooalot · #18 12/28/2007, 04:09 PM

I think you have an octopus. They can fit in the smallest of holes.I once saw a show showing an octopus squeeze through a pipe the size of a dime to get to the other side. The octopus was huge too, like basket ball size. Not only that they can change their skin to look like rocks and their color too. So even if you did see it, you might not even notice it.

Feclar · #19 12/28/2007, 04:28 PM

Interesting saga

Can't wait to see pic's

My suggestion is to get a 5"+ peacock mantis, they are very active so when he eats up the other predator you could always relocate him to a 30gallon species tank, you will probably want to remove all other inverts and fish for a week

kenwendyb · #20 12/28/2007, 04:30 PM

Wouldn't all the crabs, snails and blennie be dead by now. Started with about 20 of each 4 years ago and still have tons. And snails are reproducing all the time. I don't really know much about octopuss though. Would the dips have flushed it out? Or if adding one how to get back out?

Swanwillow · #21 12/28/2007, 04:51 PM

how long were the dips for? the dips could have killed it, whatever it was, and its still wedged in the rocks.

what sort of filtration and water movement system do you have? I'm wondering because of those huge worms that can hide in the PVC tubes.

Swanwillow · #22 12/28/2007, 04:52 PM

and, as an OT, I really cannot recommend putting a volitan lion in a 65 gallon tank. Actually, I think that tank is maxed out bio-mass wise.

Have you tried smaller fish in your 56? get a clown goby and see if it lives in your tank of death perhaps?

J-Burns · #23 12/28/2007, 04:52 PM

Octopi only live a couple of years. If this has been going on for 4 years it is somthing else.

J-Burns · #24 12/28/2007, 05:01 PM

They also are very smart and it will be no trouble finding it when you are ready to remove it as what I have read said they get very tame. You may even decided to keep it.

kenwendyb · #25 12/28/2007, 05:24 PM

Yeah, been googling octopi, 2 years at most it says. Yeah, tried all the small fish in beginning. That is what tank was going to be. Small fish and crustaceans of all sorts. Had two clown goby over the years. If I actually listed all the fish and sally,emerald, fire,peppermints oh, I'm going to cry. Anyhow, all have ended up eaten or just dead at bottom of tank or sticking out of crevice. Most all befor green brittle was introduced. He was part of cleaner package got about 6 months ago. decided to put in tank 2. Please don't tell me THAT about my volitan for my 65. I have built this soley around stocking juvinile red\blk volitan...I was planning on 200 built-in wall in next couple years and moving all to that. Was told juvinile would be fine for couple years or trading in if became too big.
By the way-Thanks for name"Tank of Death" as our names of Tank 1 and Tank 2 were far too boring. LOVE IT!!!!!
Googled the peacock mantis and that looks pretty vicious!!! Would that pretty much kill anything???