advice on my shopping list

[viodea]

I'm going to get a AGA 120 RR duel overflow (4'x2'x2') on a stand around 3' tall with a sump around 40 gal. Total volume is around 160 gal.

This is my first tank and need to buy all equipments that I need to keep it running. Please let me know if I have something missing. Comment or suggestion on my selection are welcome too.

Return pump
Eheim 1260 - $175 (Is this good enough for dual overflow?)
Eheim 1262 - $190 (If not, I may get this one instead)

RO/DI system
The filter guys Ocean wave 5 stage 75 GPD RO/DI - $135
The filter guys Ocean wave+ 5 stage 75 GPD RO/DI - $160
Is Stage 5 full size DI housing with refillable cartridge and auto shut-off worth the price difference? Wave+ said float valve or switch is required. Can I use it with manual shut off until I have the float valve or switch?

Power heads
2 Hydor Koralia 4

Temperature control
Rainbow Lifegard Big Digital Temperature Alert
2 Jager 250W heater (Are they really 17" long? Can I fit it in a 17" sump?)
Can I get by with 2 200W instead? They are 15" and I'm pretty sure they will fit.

Protein Skimmer
Still haven't decided yet but most likely a octopus.

Maintenance
Mag Float
Captive Purity Refractometer
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, and KH/Alkalinity test kit (Do I need all? Anything else I need?)
Python 10x7 inch fish net with 27 inch handle
Electrical cord with inline GFCI
Gloves
Gravel cleaner
Algae scraper
Mag-Float 125

I'll get live sand with my tank and some live rock.
I'll get salt mix locally too.

Did I miss something?
Is there anything you would change?

thanks

[BangkokMatt]

You don't need a gravel cleaner as you don't want to disturb the sandbed. Add magnesium to your test kits. A nitrite test kit is not essential IMO. What about lights?

[bertoni]

I would target around 200-300 gph through the sump, maybe the Eheim 1250. The Koralia pumps seem reasonable to me, although I haven't tried that product yet.

I'd skip the nitrite test kit. This article covers the water parameters and which ones need to be tested:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Are you interested in keeping stony corals or growing coralline algea? If so, calcium and magnesium test kits wil be handy to have. Nitrate and phosphate test kits can be useful for diagnosing problems, too.

I don't use fish nets. Some of the inline GFCI cords don't come back on after a power failure, which is a big issue. I use multiple GFCIs so that one failed device doesn't shut down the tank.

[demonsp]

Your lacking flow. I would say a 55 gallon with 2 #4 koralias would be the limit. For your tank 5 or 6 #4 koralias. Besides lacking power and limited user control they wont do the job. Use them for spot flow behind the rock work and get 2 high end powerheads with flow control knobs and duckbill tip for dirrection control. Besides you could use the better high end powerheds for a wave maker later and the koralias for addiotnl flow as wavemakers wont give the right flow and may help coral but are really for looks.

With LR i would go with a 50/50 LR and base rock with aleast 1lb per gallon upfront and all the substrate added upfront also.

Ok with all this then wait 4 to 8 weeks for readings to drop and level then come back and thread "cycle over now what".

Oh also i didnt see lighting.The importance of this depends on type of coral wanted and budet. But whene you do setup the lights start with 1 or 2 hours of main light time and increase slowly to decrease algea blooms.

[jadeguppy]

Ditto on the minimum of 1lb. of rock per gallon and going with partial live rock and partial base rock. You don't have listed where you live, but there may be a club near you. I have found several members selling live rock very inexpensive when they move. I live in a military area so that is often. Also, get Reef Crystals over instant Ocean if you want corals (salt brands). Buying salt from Drs. Fosters (sponsor) is MUCH cheaper than buying locally for most people. I save $ even when shipping is figured it. Lights will be a main expense. What are your plans there?

[bmrescort]

I have an octopus 200 on my 125 and it does a great job and keeps up on things beautifully. No nitrate problems here.

[viodea]

Originally posted by BangkokMatt
You don't need a gravel cleaner as you don't want to disturb the sandbed. Add magnesium to your test kits. A nitrite test kit is not essential IMO. What about lights?

I was thinking using the gravel clean as a siphon tool for water change and remove some small stuff that I don't want. Should I just get a host and power head to do water change?

[viodea]

Originally posted by bertoni
I would target around 200-300 gph through the sump, maybe the Eheim 1250. The Koralia pumps seem reasonable to me, although I haven't tried that product yet.

I'd skip the nitrite test kit. This article covers the water parameters and which ones need to be tested:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Are you interested in keeping stony corals or growing coralline algea? If so, calcium and magnesium test kits wil be handy to have. Nitrate and phosphate test kits can be useful for diagnosing problems, too.

I don't use fish nets. Some of the inline GFCI cords don't come back on after a power failure, which is a big issue. I use multiple GFCIs so that one failed device doesn't shut down the tank.

I thought 1250 is not enough after head lost. If not, I'll take your advice and get a 1250.
At first, it's going to be fish only until the tank is stable. I'll add some software and stony for sure if I can keep parameters in check.

How do you move fish around if you don't have a fish net?

How do I tell if an inline GFCI will come back after a power failure. I have only 1 power outlet near my tank. I want to have 2 GFCI to put 2 sets of pump/power heads on each side. In case one trip, I still have the other one. Advice need.

Can you explain a little more about your GFCI setup? Picture will be nice.

thanks

[viodea]

Originally posted by demonsp
Your lacking flow. I would say a 55 gallon with 2 #4 koralias would be the limit. For your tank 5 or 6 #4 koralias. Besides lacking power and limited user control they wont do the job. Use them for spot flow behind the rock work and get 2 high end powerheads with flow control knobs and duckbill tip for dirrection control. Besides you could use the better high end powerheds for a wave maker later and the koralias for addiotnl flow as wavemakers wont give the right flow and may help coral but are really for looks.

With LR i would go with a 50/50 LR and base rock with aleast 1lb per gallon upfront and all the substrate added upfront also.

Ok with all this then wait 4 to 8 weeks for readings to drop and level then come back and thread "cycle over now what".

Oh also i didnt see lighting.The importance of this depends on type of coral wanted and budet. But whene you do setup the lights start with 1 or 2 hours of main light time and increase slowly to decrease algea blooms.

I thought koralias were decent power heads. Can you give me a few better option?

[viodea]

My plan for lighting is 6 T5. Most likely Tek but not sure yet. I was debating between Tek and retro fit ice cap.

[viodea]

Originally posted by jadeguppy
Ditto on the minimum of 1lb. of rock per gallon and going with partial live rock and partial base rock. You don't have listed where you live, but there may be a club near you. I have found several members selling live rock very inexpensive when they move. I live in a military area so that is often. Also, get Reef Crystals over instant Ocean if you want corals (salt brands). Buying salt from Drs. Fosters (sponsor) is MUCH cheaper than buying locally for most people. I save $ even when shipping is figured it. Lights will be a main expense. What are your plans there?

I live in Kansas.
Can you explain the difference between Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean.

See my previous for my lighting plan.

[viodea]

Originally posted by bmrescort
I have an octopus 200 on my 125 and it does a great job and keeps up on things beautifully. No nitrate problems here.

Do you have the non-recirc version? I'm not sure which one to get. And now, they just have a newer extreme model too. I hate to be the first to use a new product but they do look good.
What's your thought?

[Sk8r]

I don't use a power head at all, just my return line---which is plenty: I've had to use 2 T's to get it calmed down so as not to blow my corals out of the water.

You never told us what you want to keep. That's critical to good advice.

You NEVER clean a sandbed, that's sure. TO move water without a mess, just get a maxijet 1200 and a length of tubing for it. You put it into the bucket when pumping water into the tank, and into the tank when pumping water down to the bucket. Little Maxijets of all sizes can do a lot of jobs, like stirring salt mix, etc., but only the MJ 1200 can lift water 6 feet.

On lighting---again, T5 will handle most anything, but we could be more specific if we had an idea what you want to do with this tank.

One thing I would sincerely advise is NOT connecting a ro/di filter directly to your tank. Accidents happen. Bad enough if your accident involves a 5 gallon topoff bucket of fresh water all going into your tank. Or 32g. An accident involving the whole city water supply can be extreme. If you are going to do this, ask about some way to limit the amount that system will deliver at one swat.

I don't know if you have a basement, but if you do, you can put your whole auxiliary rig downstairs for maximum accessibility [and less pump noise] and only 2 hoses going through the floor to reach your serenely clutter-free tank.

Additional things good to have:
If you're going to have corals, ultimately consider a calcium reactor [and room for it! they're a big cylinder and a co2 tank].
If you want less headache, provide for a 30g fuge to support that tank---or larger. It can be part of your sump. But it will mean less battle with algae, it will mean your tank looking a lot more like the ideal pictures, and it will feed exotic eaters like the mandarin and scooters, plus just make the water 'nicer' the way potted plants improve the air in a lounge.

[bertoni]

I didn't compute the head loss on the 1250. How much head loss is expected? I think 250 gph through the sump should be fine.

I don't have much digital picture capability. For GFCIs, I just got some 4-unit boxes and put 4 GFCIs into them. I have one piece of equipment per GFCI to a fairly great degree. I'd just plug the inline GFCI into the wall, get it going, and pull the plug and see what happens when it's put back into the wall.

Moving fish around is something to avoid. I don't do that except when moving the entire tank. Then I heard the fish into boxes or bags. Much less trauma for them.

The Koralia pumps are fine, from what I can tell. There are fancier setups available, though. The total flow through the tank is the issue. Depending on what animals you'd like to keep, the flow required varies a lot. I'd want a minimum of 1200 gph through the system. Two of the Koralia 4 pumps should be fine for many animals, in my opinion.

[viodea]

I know I will have crown fish and anemone. My wife's request and I love that combination too.
For corals, I'm not quite sure at this moment. I figure I can use T5 and put light hungry corals like SPS closer to the light and less light hungry ones near the bottom.

I'll have a 30 - 40 gal sump divided into 3 compartments. Left side will be for skimmer, right side is my refuge. Both have their only overflow line coming in. The middle part is where I put my return pump which need to pump water to TWO return lines. I think the head lost will be around 5'. Which pump should I get?

[viodea]

Originally posted by Sk8r
I don't use a power head at all, just my return line---which is plenty: I've had to use 2 T's to get it calmed down so as not to blow my corals out of the water.

What kind of return pump do you use? Any suggestion on which one I should get?

You NEVER clean a sandbed, that's sure. TO move water without a mess, just get a maxijet 1200 and a length of tubing for it. You put it into the bucket when pumping water into the tank, and into the tank when pumping water down to the bucket. Little Maxijets of all sizes can do a lot of jobs, like stirring salt mix, etc., but only the MJ 1200 can lift water 6 feet.

I guess I'll just get a Maxijet and a hose. thanks for you advice.

On lighting---again, T5 will handle most anything, but we could be more specific if we had an idea what you want to do with this tank.

Read my previous post. I hope the placement of corals will solve any problem regarding light issue. I wanted to use MH but worry about the temperature during summer time.

One thing I would sincerely advise is NOT connecting a ro/di filter directly to your tank. Accidents happen. Bad enough if your accident involves a 5 gallon topoff bucket of fresh water all going into your tank. Or 32g. An accident involving the whole city water supply can be extreme. If you are going to do this, ask about some way to limit the amount that system will deliver at one swat.

I will NOT connect my RO/DI directly to my tank. I want to use 3 storage boxes to store my water. One for flash RO/DI. One for mixed salt water. One for transporting water for top-off or water change. I want to put the RO/DI system in my laundry room. Space is limited. I'm thinking if there is any rectangular shape container is safe for my application. The Brute is not as space efficient.

I don't know if you have a basement, but if you do, you can put your whole auxiliary rig downstairs for maximum accessibility [and less pump noise] and only 2 hoses going through the floor to reach your serenely clutter-free tank.

I do have a basement but don't want to put a hole on my floor. If I ever finish my basement, a new tank will be down there.

Additional things good to have:
If you're going to have corals, ultimately consider a calcium reactor [and room for it! they're a big cylinder and a co2 tank].

I actually thought about it. If I don't have room for it in the future, I will need to be creative.

If you want less headache, provide for a 30g fuge to support that tank---or larger. It can be part of your sump. But it will mean less battle with algae, it will mean your tank looking a lot more like the ideal pictures, and it will feed exotic eaters like the mandarin and scooters, plus just make the water 'nicer' the way potted plants improve the air in a lounge.

I do have a fuge. I planned to grow chaeto in there. Is it a good choice? Any other plant is easy to maintain and produces food for my fish or inverts?

thanks again!!!

[Sk8r]

CHeato's great. No roots, if it does escape.
Good on not connecting infinitely to the city water system.
They're very small holes.
I wouldn't wish my return pump on my worst enemy---way overpowered, even for a 20 foot run upstairs...
I'm sure people can recommend good quieter pumps. Mine is great in durability, nicer if I'd got the 55 instead of 100, and tough as nails...but there are quieter.

[timrandlerv10]

most online places that sell pumps also have charts for computing head loss.

imHo, you only need to be able to return what you can put through your skimmer...why let water overflow and then send it back up there for no reason? skimmer rating=return pump rating including head loss.

uses least amount of power and has least initial cost. then spend the extra money on PHs that will move the water exactly where you want with 0 head loss.

clowns and nems: are we thinking percs and BTAs? bta's are by FAR the easiest, but dont forget--you'll be hearing chants of 'WAIT ONE YEAR! WAIT ONE YEAR!' pretty soon. it does take a while to get settled...only bad things happen quickly.

[viodea]

Originally posted by timrandlerv10
most online places that sell pumps also have charts for computing head loss.

imHo, you only need to be able to return what you can put through your skimmer...why let water overflow and then send it back up there for no reason? skimmer rating=return pump rating including head loss.

uses least amount of power and has least initial cost. then spend the extra money on PHs that will move the water exactly where you want with 0 head loss.

clowns and nems: are we thinking percs and BTAs? bta's are by FAR the easiest, but dont forget--you'll be hearing chants of 'WAIT ONE YEAR! WAIT ONE YEAR!' pretty soon. it does take a while to get settled...only bad things happen quickly.

Great advice on the return pump. I'll do my research on my skimmer and come up with the right pump.
As for the skimmer, I don't want to under or over skim. I've heard people said the number provided by manufactory is not accurate. How do I find the right size of skimmer?
Is re-circ skimmer hype or real deal?

I'll take things slow but do I really need to wait a year before I can do fish & anemones. I thought once the cycle is over, I can start adding inverts & fishes slowly.

[bertoni]

I don't think there's any useful relationship between the skimmer pump rating and the return pump. The skimmer is going to be drawing mostly air, anyway. I guess I'd go for the 1260, although it's a bit oversized.

[zotzer]

Originally posted by demonsp
[B]Your lacking flow. I would say a 55 gallon with 2 #4 koralias would be the limit. For your tank 5 or 6 #4 koralias.

Lance, I have to assume by the above statement that you don't actually use koralias. You'd have a mess on your hands in anything but barebottom SPS tank running that number of K4s.

I ran only two K1s in my 46g for a long time, and eventually added a K3. I'm in the process of trading down to a K2 with a fellow reefer because my showpiece big rock of red mushrooms has been very unhappy since adding just ONE koralia 3 on the opposite side of the tank.

Understanding what the OP plans to stock would help with making a proper recommendation regarding the koralias.

Tracy

[bertoni]

I agree. The flow recommendations are getting out of control. It's certainly possible to have a nice tank with huge amounts of flow, but some animals won't like that, and most don't need it.