Tankless Water Heater

[porky]

We need a new water heater and are thinking about going tankless. We have looked real hard @ the Rinnai and it seems to be the industry standard. In addition to the environmental aspect, not burning gas 24/7, there should also be a substantial savings in energy costs.
Anyone have one of these?
What are the pro's vs. con's?

[radone]

We have one at work, this is an industrial environment with say 1200 employees they seem to work good, but under this condition don't last but 2-3 years. Pretty sure it burns them up
For your home I would think they could last 5-10 years about the same as the normal unit.
Have you looked into the programed one any?

[porky]

Yeah Rinnai says if you follow their maintenance schedule it should last 15-20 years in a household.
Most of the ones I have been researching are programmable.
The up front costs are just so much more that it's gonna take some time to realize any cost savings due to decreased energy use.

[ReefFreaks]

Porky,

I looked into these about 8 months ago. The concept is neat stuff. I was looking at the Palumbo unit at HD. The six months Same as cash on my HD card made it look appealing. I found a couple of draw backs here in my little town.

1) I couldn't find any one that had installed one yet. I call three large (they do hospitols and schools, etc) plumbing contractors and no one had any experience with them.

2) The unit that allowed us to use multiple items at once, ie. shower, dishwasher was significantly more expensive.

3) Because of the high BTU's of these they have to be vented directly outside, or into a lined chimney. Plus they have to have a seamless -stainless vent. Plus they have to hve electric hooked to them.

When I looked at the total cost of the unit, instalation, and energy I found the break even at about 15 years. The same estimate life span of the unit.

I went with a new tanked unit. Vs. the 16 year old unit that I replaced my energy savings on just the hot water were about $12-$13 per month.

Let us know what you find.

This year has been "all about" energy savings at my house. Glass block basement windows, 12" of blow insulation, plus the new HW heater. I am actually looking forward to my gas bill this year, simply because I want to see the savings. Recently I looked into solar panels and realized that until these become main stream, they will not be cost effective. In order to get my home complete off of the grid, I'd have to invest about $28K. My break even would be 15 years.

[jakano]

Hey Porky call AEP to rent one of their 80 gallon units. It's like 15 a month in rental but they will take that back off the electric bill. Plus any thing goes wrong with the unit it is their problem to fix not yours. You never have to have a plumbing bill for a tank again. And it only heats during off peak hours so its cheaper to run. I have had one since we built the house and I have never run out of hot water.

[haggarse]

I have a plumber/electrician buddy who just installed one in his home and swares by it. Not to mention how much smaller it is versus a regular water heater.

[porky]

Thanks Freak!
I am aware of all the potential drawbacks, but in our home it's just 2 of us so I don't think having enough HW would be an issue. My primary concerns are the upfront cost and maintenance. Nothing I can do about the up front cost, they are new and cost are pretty consistent across the board.
After looking into them a little closer, most all of them require you perform yearly maintenance to keep your warranty. The maintenance, about $150 a pop, they do is pretty much a vinegar type flush to rid the unit of calcium deposits. Something I could do myself, but it must be done "...by a certified technician..." or you could void the warranty.
I really like the idea of not heating water when I'm not using it... I just wish the technology was perfected.
J, AEP rents these things???
Yeah they are pretty neat, and the Rinnai mounts on the wall.

[Reefdiver72]

I put a gas one in the lake house and its alright but it just doesnt seem to keep a constant temperature there alright if you like hot then cold showers and I bought a good size one. I dont think they have all the bugs worked out of them yet. And it raised the gas bill I was told the electric ones dont get the water very hot.

[ReefFreaks]

These tankless have been available in Japan for many years. I think that I heard that they don't even used tanked heaters in Japan anymore. I believe it is a space issue there rather than a effort to save $$. I would imagine in our lifetime that tankless heaters will be mandated by our Uncle Sam. Certainly once these acheive enough popularity the price will drop, and the technology will improve.

That said, with my new unit, my HW heating bill has definately decreased. Especailly Vs. a 16 Year old unit. I am using about half of the gas as before. They are certainly better built. I used to be able to feel heat on the side and top of the old unit. The new one is cool to the touch.

[cougarguy]

My dad just installed one himself at his house and he swears by it he said he can run the dishwasher,washing machine,and shower with no problem. He said the only thing that he has noticed is that it takes a minute for the heat to kick in as it starts heating when you turn the water on.

He has been looking for one since he was stationed in the Netherlands 25yrs ago and they have just recently been reasonably priced and readily available.

[AcroSteve]

Originally posted by jakano
Hey Porky call AEP to rent one of their 80 gallon units. It's like 15 a month in rental but they will take that back off the electric bill. Plus any thing goes wrong with the unit it is their problem to fix not yours. You never have to have a plumbing bill for a tank again. And it only heats during off peak hours so its cheaper to run. I have had one since we built the house and I have never run out of hot water.

Porky, this is what I have, but mine is 120gal. Ren is a little over $18/ month = 216 per year.

I have hour meters on my elements and a water meter that monitors my hot water use age. I installed all of them to try to get a tru cost of my hot water.

I have tried to get some good solid information on the costs of tankless and also a traditional tank type, but propane. So far, I have not turned up anything of much use. So I still have the rental.

And as far as savings because of the off peak timer on AEP's tank, my last bill showed a savings of $4.52 due to my water heater. This was on a bill of $170. Sometimes in the summer, it shows a savings of over $25, but the bill is over $300 then.

Bottom line is, I don't know how you could pin it down for a real comparison. Tankless heaters are expensive and with the long ROI, don't always make sense.

[angelo123]

I have a bosch and love it, had it installed 3 years ago, no problems at all

[sammie]

Can't you mount these outside so you won't need the vent???

[AcroSteve]

Yes, some of them are suited for exterior install. Not sure which one.