Marketable species

Noof · #1 10/28/2006, 11:06 AM

What do people think are the most marketable species?

I have a couple of points here....

Clowns... easy to breed (comparatively) , easy to raise (comparatively) but people can only really have two in a tank??
Also cheap..... Again comparatively!

Shrimp... easier to spawn, Harder to raise ( unless you are Luis) but people can purchase 6 to 8 to put in their tank?? so maybe more marketable to LFS? but still cheap.

Or Matts mandarins .... Hard to spawn, damn near impossible (at least 15 pages on the forum) to raise but worth millions....... Comparatively. Although to a limited market?.... probably again two per tank... but at a million a fish .. well who can afford them?

Other species........ Um... feel free to elaborate on spawning easy, raising easy and selling price??

Point is.... do you go for easy and cheap or more difficult for maybe a few extra dollars?

clownfish75 · #2 10/28/2006, 05:45 PM

I have conisdered the same things before.

i only have a good handle on clownfish, what is it like for something like a dottyback, do they sell heaps or are they still slow to sell.

perhaps a perspective from david on how seahorses go at selling compared to clownfish might add some real world perpective.

Christian

David M · #3 10/28/2006, 06:35 PM

It has been said several times here: breed ocellaris to fund the breeding of anything else.

It is quite simply the single most recognizable and popular marine tropical fish, it is one of the easiest to breed and ironically about the easiest to make profitable. Go figure, what other business is out there where the easiest thing to do is the most profitable?? About the only reason I can think of not to choose oc's is if there is someone in your immediate area already doing it. One breeder can easily saturate a large local market, there is no point in hobbyists "competing" with each other. If that were the case I'd probably choose percs or gsm's, or move on to the dottybacks or possibly neon gobies. All are doable and no special foods are required like with those dream mandarins you want a $million for

Thay are popular fish that will sell well. For whatever reason I can't give away tomato clowns, clarkii's might be good though

Atticus · #4 10/29/2006, 02:31 PM

Orange A. Ocellaris pay the bills. Seahorses can be a bit to get used to, but there is a market for them. Secondary clowns would be black ocellaris, onyx, clarks, and gold stripe maroons. I would also add bangaii cardinals as secondary because they are not hugely profitable, but they are very easy and fun. Tertiary would be tomatoes, Flames, shrimp, and gobies. Mandarins are currently a dream.

sunfishh · #5 10/30/2006, 09:21 AM

I would think that orchid dottyback would be quite profitable

David M · #6 10/30/2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

I would think that orchid dottyback would be quite profitable

Agreed. This is an odd fish (along with P. aldabraensis ) because the price is all over the board. Big Florida Breeder sells both species for $14-$16 but not everyone buys from BFB. The price of wild caught flutuates and at times reaches $45 wholesale !!!!! Orchids regularily fetch $59-$69 in local shops, as much as $99 when they are hard to find. I have struggled with them, they are definately more difficult than clowns but my feeling is I will figure it out, others have so I'm sure I can do it. So far I've raised ONE and he is not out of the woods yet, just 38 days old

MMoe did it, commercial guys can do it, Edgar can do it, and I'm sure there are others. That means that any of us can do it if we put in the effort and survive the learning curve. Sure there other species probably doable at the the same level of challenge, but when you look at the market value orchids and arabians are a "no brainer" choice.

mwp · #7 10/30/2006, 04:00 PM

One of the interesting things about Orchids and Arabians is that usually when our LFSs have them, they only have one or two, and I guess they're able to move them (typically asking $50-70 ea.). However, I think it's one of those fish that won't necessarily fly out the door in huge numbers at that price.

Thus why you see many more people doing Occellaris vs. other species...it's the one fish other than damsels that shops simply always NEED to have in stock and in good numbers....there's just no way around it. OC's are "beginner" fish, whereas an Orchid Dottyback isn't. If damsels fetched $20+, you'd probably see more folks trying to raise them. I'd say at times damsels can account for as much as 50% of the total saltwater stock in some shops.

There's a top 20 marine imports list of fish floating around on the internet somewhere...OCs are way up there at the top along with things like Yellow Tangs. In fact, I think on that top 20 list, the only fish that can easily be produced in captivity IS the Occellaris.

FWIW,

Matt

mwp · #8 10/30/2006, 04:03 PM

This is not THE list, but is A list of top marine imports.

http://www.ofish.org/data-area.asp?aid=11493&gid=4838 - I think it's the top species per year or something...anyways you'll notice that 14 of the list entires are DAMSELFISH!

Matt

clownfish75 · #9 10/30/2006, 04:18 PM

one thing to consider matt, there are only 3 non damselfish/clownfish on that list, the cleaner wrasse, yellow tang, and blue tang, none of those things hold a higher price in the US than a orchid dottyback do they.

bet if you were selling an orchid at $15 wholesale to a shop and the wholesalers were sellign at that price when the customer comes to a $30 orchid then sales figures will go throguht he roof.

bit of a supply and demand situation. although if you halve the price you need to sell 2X more, selling them is probably not hard, but breeding twice as many may not be so easy.

Christian

mwp · #10 10/30/2006, 04:23 PM

Christian - agreed, and that was my basic point. I would think that if you nail down Orchids, you're going to have more fish than you can move if the retail stays up at $50-70. Plus, Orchids and their kin aren't usually kept in groups, whereas it's not uncommon for a large aquarium to be set up with a dozen or two dozen ocellaris (need to think not only of hobbyists such as ourselves but the other big aquarium consumer - commercial properties such as offices, hospitals etc.). The price of WC Oc's has gone way up in the last 10 years from my personal observation, thus it's relatively possible to breed plenty and make some income off them.

BTW, typical shop markups are MINIMIUM 3X on livestock, usually shooting for 4X or more. So, a $15 fish at wholesale quickly becomes $45 retail.

Matt

Noof · #11 10/30/2006, 06:51 PM

I agree,
The local shops here are 3X which I guess is ok if they have shipping to cover?.. I would hope that if you were able to provide good quality fish which are hardy then they might drop that margin? I mean that would be a hangover from getting in stock which dies or is poorly coloured?...
Not sure though

Hmmm Is anyone breeding Tangs on a hobbiest level? Although I believe that large tanks are required?.?.?...... indicating that maybe not hobbiest level but a few steps up?

Atticus · #12 10/30/2006, 07:46 PM

The 3x covers the 2 dead ones it takes to profit off one live one. This relates all too true with wild caught fish. By supplying a captive raised fish you have cut the need for the 3x, but it will take time for the LFS to realize that.

Noof · #13 10/31/2006, 06:44 AM

Would be useful. Let me assure you that the money I have made from raising clowns has gone straight back through the filter into the tank.
Would be nice if the LFS would understand that there is a very low death rate in tankies. I think that I have had maybe 3 fish die in my main grow out tank and it currently houses about 120 clowns. Of course there have been fish on top of that which get eaten but I have had to remove only 3 in 6 months

Even if the LFS paid us half what they put them on the shelf for it would make the hobby easier to expand. Like I said above if a LFS looks after a breeder then chances are that the breeder will put most of the money if not all back through the shop.

As it is they are really only hurting themselves and the reefs of the world.

Dave Legacy · #14 11/01/2006, 12:40 AM

I'd think producing Indigo Dottybacks, hybrid of the Pseudochromis sankeyi x fridmani, would bring in some sales. I know of one breeder that's doing it, not sure if they can copywrite such a thing but they sure are interesting. I can definetly see one of these guys in my future.

Here's a pic:

mwp · #15 11/01/2006, 01:55 AM

Um, the "INDIGO DOTTYBACK". There's a big long thread on them (can't perform a search right now...maybe someone else will be kind enough to find it and post the link).

In addition to my personal moral qualms about producing such fish intentionally, I'd have to tell you that they're consistently showing up in LiveAquaria.com's Diver Den fish selections and they don't seem to be moving. There are 3 at our closests LFS, $90 each, and guess what, NOT MOVING EITHER - they've been there for 2-3 months now I think.

WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS!

FWIW, just my $0.02.

Matt

mwp · #16 11/01/2006, 01:57 AM

BTW, all the live specimens I've seen don't look nearly as good as the one in that picture...they're more washed out. Even the WYSIWYG on LA don't look that good, and they *could* photoshop the pix if they wanted to.

INDIGO DOTTYBACK = TOTAL WASTE OF RESOURCES = A STEP BACKWARDS

Matt

clownfish75 · #17 11/01/2006, 04:01 AM

so are my hopes raised MAtt for a fish that isnt really blue.

to be honest in this game to financially survive i would consider a cross breed and do have percXocellaris i can get about 50% more than a normal ocellaris for. I know it isnt an ideal thing to do, but to be honest if i cant turn a buck i wont be here long enough to breed other things. kind of a catch 22. depends on your moral ethics, and everyone is different.

personally, i think breeding true pure fish is much better, but to i do have to balance the books at the end of the day.

Christian

Noof · #18 11/01/2006, 07:13 AM

Hmmm interesting...
I would have thought that a blue fish might attract the eye of the novice?

Maybe not

I am trying to put myself in the position of not competing with other breeders.
Eg I know in Adelaide there are people who are breeding Bangais, orchids, orange osc. etc. albiet not consistantly and I want to breed other things which wont hurt their chances to stay viable in a tight market. Melbourne is hurting the locals here. as far as I know they are undercutting most of the prices here.

all we can do is deliver quality and consistency. Not all together easy but maybe doable.

I would think that peppermints would be my next port of call and then maybe on to others... would like to get Bangers going due to the demand ... but who can get a pair here?

I certainly dont want to compete with another local breeder .. or an interstater for that matter.... although there is significant adv to locals over interstater.
And then maybe we would have the money to consider setting something up like MWP DMAN or FISHBOY?

?

ediaz · #19 11/01/2006, 11:34 AM

The only one who is right is the one who mentioned the yellow tangs.

If you don't have occelaris,clarks, maroons no matter how many orchid or any other dottyback you raise by the thousands you won't be able to sell them.

Tell me about it, don't mind the gobies

Ed

mwp · #20 11/01/2006, 11:57 AM

Ya know, the one fish I see rolling through the LFS tanks here in Chicago that isn't captive bred but SHOULD be are the Neon Gobies!!! I had a WC Mated Pair...subcummbed to ICH immediately and I'm left with one. None the less, supposedly pretty easy to raise, PRETTY, and a great reef fish, not to mention a cleaner fish. I'd think you can get a lot more for those than Peppermint Shrimp, but maybe in Australia that could be different. Being close to the carribean, it's not uncommon to see peps on sale for as little as $4 US....dirt cheap.

Matt

Atticus · #21 11/01/2006, 12:31 PM

I don't want to get into the mix species vs pure blood, but I will say that breeding crosses will not pay the bills. Ocellaris and clarks pay the bills (period). Everything else is gravy.

clownfish75 · #22 11/01/2006, 06:34 PM

things are a bit different in OZ, a peppermint is worth at least $15 in a shop. and you cant sell a clarck for love or money. Ocellaris, percs and thats about where it stops, maybe frenatus.

Edaiz do you know why orchids were a slow seller?

Christian

Noof · #23 11/01/2006, 06:51 PM

Chris is right... peps do fetch about 15$ maybe more in places and they are a little hard to get at the moment....
Anyone breeding Tangs?
There has to be a thread on that somewhere?

oama · #24 11/01/2006, 11:14 PM

Matt
Try an indigo. Put it in your reef tank. I'm betting you'll be pleasently surprised.

Oama

mwp · #25 11/01/2006, 11:21 PM

Oama, with my already crowded broodstock tanks and my Victorian Cichlid SSP interests, you're NEVER going to see a hybrid in my tanks (well, except if my S. stellatus and S. splendidus spawn on the same night and I don't catch it and let the spawn go.) There's no placed for an Indigo dottyback in any of my tanks!

My $90 was better spent on a new pair of TR Black OC's with perfect bars that had already paired up that are happily swimming around in my seahorse/mandarin tank.

All I can say is the Indigos more than rub me the wrong way, but I've already expounded on that in the earlier thread. Side by side with Fridmanis, heck ROYAL GRAMMAS, they more than fall short. They're pretty ugly in person, at least the 4 I've seen.

There are SO MANY better looking actual species that deserve our attention as captive breeders. I'd can think of MANY better deserving efforts of ORA's time than to produce Indigos and I'm pretty sure they'd have been just as profitable in the long run. Granted, you can't argue with the publicity a hybrid like this can generate for a company...that's something pretty hard to buy...but only time will tell if it's of any real benefit.

Again, just my $0.02, and I'm definitely repeating much of my same sentiments from the earlier post, so I'll try to keep it to myself this time around - TRY being one of those "flexible" terms.

If Peps fetch $15 each on the flipside, Neon Gobies and maybe Goldlines would be sure fire fish I bet!

Matt