Newbie to octopuses, pointers needed

[Torno]

I have always wanted an octopus, so Im hoping you guys can lead me into the right direction. Very soon I will have an empty 29 gallon tank due to upgrading. I wanted to know if I could put an octopus in here and if so what kind. I saw a tank bred one from liveaquaria.com that looked cool, the scientific name is Octopus bimaculoides. I know I would have to keep it alone and such, but what diet could I give it, and how hardy are these? Also, if it were to lay eggs, how hard are baby octopuses to raise in captivity? Thanks for all of your answers, keep up the good work on this forum!

Neil

[Brock Fluharty]

You cannot keep a bimac in a 29 gallon tank. 50 gallons are minimum. Besides, LA doesn't have them right now. Nobody is currently selling CB bimacs. The only thing you could keep in a 29 gallon tank is a dwarf, which are nocturnal, you won't see them, and have VERY VERY short life spans. Gte a bigger tank would be your first step.

[alancolinet]

What kind of aquascape/how large are the peices of LR supposed to be in such a tank?

[sundance1]

I know someone who has had a bimac in a 30 gallon hex for several months now without any problems.He has 20lbs of sand and 15 to 20 pounds of live rock(guessing on weight).He is running a Fluval canister filter and a titanium WON heater.He does 5 gallon water changes once a week and keeps the temp at 76 degrees.
I am currently cycling the same set uo for when I find a tankbred bimac for sale.Good luck

[alancolinet]

Sounds like a solid setup.... I was also considering using the hex tank....it seemed appropriate.

[DHyslop]

Why on earth is he heating the tank for a temperate octopus? Does he want to shorten its lifespan?

Dan

[sundance1]

Because if he doesn't heat it,the temp will drop too much at night,the warm up during the day.Too much movement in the temp is worse than keeping it stable but a little high.The range for a bimac is supposed to be 72 to 78.So 76 is within that range.

[DHyslop]

Even 75 degrees is pushing it IMO--these are temperate animals and when you pump up the water temperature their metabolism goes through the roof and their lifespan through the floor. Where do you get that 72 degree figure from as a minimum? The water temperature right now in San Diego is 62! Many bimac keepers end up with their tank around 72 because its the lowest they can get it without a chiller. Unless his tank is hitting 50 degrees at night I can't imagine a problem with daily variation.

Dan

[sundance1]

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=534

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/octop...halopods-.html

[DHyslop]

Well, Drs F&S tend to do a pretty good job (Marine Depot on the other hand has trouble keeping them alive in their tanks), but I think that the conditions where the animals are caught are a better first step towards determining how to care for them!

Dan

[alancolinet]

That may very well be the case, what would the coldest tank be w/out the need of a chiller though??

I think that 72 is pushing it for temperature w/out a chiller....perhaps with a really small filter.

[Brock Fluharty]

76*F is just too high. DHyslop knows what he is talking about. Deal with it.

[DHyslop]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Brock, but I don't think its productive

I certainly agree its hard to get a tank below 72 degrees--for many tanks even with a chiller! IMO this isn't too big of a deal, the lower 70s are--if not ideal for the animal--the only reasonable compromise for keeping it in an aquarium.

What racks my brains is that someone who has achieved what so many others have coveted--a chilly tank perfect for a bimac--would do the unthinkable and crank the heat up!

Dan

[sundance1]

Ya know what guys,I didn't ask for all the smartass comments,I just reported what has proven to work and how long it has worked.Nobody said you didn't know what you are talking about.

[alancolinet]

You should still have a heater in the tank to help regulate the temperature. It can get pretty cold in PA during the winter at night, especially with how dry the air can get up here.... having the temperature fluctuate to much would be worse than having the tank a little warmer than usual.

[DHyslop]

Sundance--I'm sorry if I offended you, it certainly wasn't my intention.

Alan--it depends, I suppose. I would expect most tanks big enough to happily house an adult bimac would have enough temperature "inertia" to minimize that daily variation. What kind of variation are we talking about? If we're just talking 5 degrees or so, maybe 10 tops, I think you'd be much better without the heater. And I can't imagine, even in chilly Pennsylvania, that you have more than a 10 degree variation.

Here's my uninvited diatribe:

What's "proven to work" is very subjective at best in this hobby. You can find a 100 people who collectively "prove" that a tang and a puffer can be kept in a 29 gallon tank. Likewise there's someone who posts occasionally on TONMO about how great his bimac is doing in an Eclipse--Nevermind the fact that it is completely infested with hair and bubble algae, he proved its possible! This is especially true with the octopus hobby which is truly still in infancy. There are so many things about them that have been repeated on this and other forums that are--simply and demonstrably--false. Things like the size difference between O. bimaculoides and O. bimaculatus.

Given this, when planning my systems I try to focus on two sources of information: the environment the animals come from, and the peer-reviewed scientific literature. In the case of bimac temperatures, the annual variation in water temperature varies from about 57 degrees in January to a summer high of 69 degrees at Oceanside, CA. The low 70s are a realistic compromise to keep bimacs in a home aquarium without a chiller, but nonetheless one that will shorten their life. Keeping a bimac tank in the upper 70s is like keeping your reef in the mid 90s! Given that many bimacs are naturally intertidal, considerable daily fluctuations are almost certainly more natural than a 24-hour slow roast.

The peer-reviewed literature is also most helpful because bimacs have been raised and brooded by the tens of thousands at the NRCC is Galveston, and every excruciating detail about what works and what doesn't has been published--20 years ago, no less. To paraphrase my favorite marine biologist (George Lewis Costanza), while us hobbyists have been rubbing two sticks together, the biologists are out there walking around with Zippos.

I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but I stongly feel that if we're to keep these or any creatures we should know a little more about them than just what the LFS tells us about it to sell it to us (which is unfortunately less research than most octo owners even do! How many messages are posted on TONMO that say "help I just bought an octo what do I feed it?").

Dan

[socalnanoreefer]

If anyone wants a bimac I can get you one. I go diving like three four times a month and see babies all the time.

[Mizu]

I live in NW PA near lake erie.
I keep my house heated to 68degrees.
I have a 75 gal tank that is neither heated nor chilled.
I kept a bimac for many months (killed by a mysterious Ammonia Spike)
In the wild Bimacs are subject to light and heating fluxuations that are more then your tank will do sitting in your house.
76 degrees is too high
30 gal tank is too small
yeah he might live but so would you if i stuffed you in an 8X8 room and fed you.
You damn sure would not be happy about it.
I had mine in a 75 gal tank. and at times i felt like he was cramped
My Bimac could stretch out and grab the back wall while still being attached to the front. That always made me feel like i was crowding him (enter 150gal Tank for next ceph)
Im not an expert like Dhyslop just a guy who kept one for a spell and this is my opinion.

[DHyslop]

Originally posted by Mizu
Im not an expert like Dhyslop just a guy who kept one for a spell and this is my opinion.

I'm not an expert. I just play one on TV