|
|
|
|
#30
03/19/2005, 11:44 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Newbie with questions about your experience...
Pat and others,
I am a newbie... I haven't even purchased my tank yet. But I'm always dedicated when starting a new venture, and have been reading up diligently on the subject (four books and many forums)... I have really enjoyed this thread, and actually have learned many things from it. I was wondering if you could give me some pointers from your experience so far. Bio Balls & Live Rock From what I have been reading, the new trend is to steer away from Bio Balls. I was at my LHS last night drooling over the 70g & 90g and talked to the owner about sumps. They have custom ones that have built in Bio/Refugium/Skimmer areas. I mentioned I wanted to go without Bio Balls...and his response was 'why'? I tried to explain that reading up on it has exposed the addition of Nitrates or Nitrites (I wasn't sure) sometimes to the tank...and he informed me that if you use a prefilter...this isn't the case. He runs them on all of his tanks and they are all awesome! Anyway...I am really at a loss to explain to him why not. Is it unpractical to run Live Rock AND Bio Balls? TBS or Fiji From viewing this thread...I now have confirmation that TBS does provide some spectacular rock. I guess I am on the fence though about the long term expectations on the rock. I have read other threads that say that within a year, the majority of life on their rocks dies out... I guess my question is: For the money you spent on the 90g TBS it appears that you have
Would you consider doing
I really can't decide on which way to go. I am very impressed with the TBS live rock, but I have read experiences on how it's just not as good at long range tank life support. AARRGGH! So many opinions...it's making my head spin! TBS sand theory or DSB theory A big issue for me is the TBS 90 crab theory on the sand. Do you find that having that many crabs is wiping out your sand? I think that I want to go with a 4" sand base to build an efficient filter system...but also think that TBS cleaning crew is a good thing. The problem is... Literature that supports a 4" DSB also says that 1 hermit per 10 gallons. Why such a discrepancy on theories...? I better stop now. I know this isn't a Q/A thread. But if anyone can throw their 'real world' experience in on these questions that I have, I would be extremely grateful! Thanks for the ear! Mark |
|
#31
03/19/2005, 11:52 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Also, Here is the link to the LFS tank information
I forgot to give the link to the LFS that I was at when asking about Bio Balls and Live Rock.
http://www.soutassaltwater.com/Display.htm This link shows the information on the main display tank that they have. Of course, I couldn't ever afford to have a setup like this, but it does mention the use of Bio Balls and Live Rock... |
|
#32
03/19/2005, 12:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Newbie with questions about your experience...
Quote:
Yes, some people DO use bio-balls. I know the lady at my LFS uses them and she says she has no problems with them. I decided that I was going to go with the major majority of people on RC and follow their advice and use LR and a skimmer. I have a wet/dry and when the tank came, I just took the bio balls out. I would imagine if you had a pre-filter, you could catch a lot of junk...but you'd really have to clean that filter out all the time, to try and prevent nitrates building up in the tank. I have also read where the combination tanks like you spoke about aren't really the best choice because if you did decide to upgrade equipment or do modifications, it almost makes it impossible. So I would recommend just getting a seperate tank and sump. As far as the rock.....that is something that only you can answer as to what you want in your tank. There are many people that don't care for the TBS and then many that just love it. I have heard the same things as you as far as die-off after the first year, but have also seen pictures and stories from people who have had their TBS for years and still have tons of life that came on it. So I guess it's a matter of taking a chance and hoping the stuff lives that you got. As far as the critters....the stuff I have gotten has kept me in amazement the past few months. I am still discovering new things in the tank. Both good and bad things. Don't be fooled by thinking that you only get bad things from the Florida rock. You can get the same bad things from any pacific type rock too. TBS sometimes gets a bum rap from people because you will find more mantis in their rock....heck, it's shipped to you in water...there is less die-off for sure. It's really a decision only you can make. Once I saw the TBS I knew it was what I wanted....good or bad. I can honestly say after last night, that I truly have had much more diversity than many others got with their TBS. I have both good and bad. In all fairness, I knew this before I ordered it, and still wanted it. I really didn't think I would get the isopods, because it's not really a "common" thing. Sure, some do get them, but that's almost like hitting the lottery.....more people won't get them than will. I just happen to be one of the lucky few who hit the jackpot.  I am brand new at this too, and I've never had the pacific type rock, so I won't and can't say anything bad about it. I personally just wanted what TBS offered. I also wanted to do the best I could do to maintain the life and that's why I decided to nix the bio balls and go with a sump and use the LR and skimmer for filtration. Wish I could have helped you out some more!!
__________________
Pat |
|
#33
03/19/2005, 12:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Oh Mark...I forgot about the hermits.
They haven't bothered anything in the tank besides a few of the turbo snails. They stay busy just eating away all day long. I believe TBS recently lowered the number per package to one pr lb. , where it used to be 2. I haven't found them to be offensive at all yet. I do wish I had more turbos though. I love the way they cleaned the glass!
__________________
Pat |
|
#34
03/19/2005, 12:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Landon...all your pictures are great!! Your mandarin is beautiful! Is it hard to keep?
I got a little sad seeing the YWG. I won't even think of one for a few months now, to play it safe. But hey.....to look on the bright side....they're not on th endangered species list, so they'll be around when it's safe for me to add fish to the tank again, right? I also loved the shot of your pistol. Did you buy it with your YWG? How large is the pistol?
__________________
Pat |
|
#35
03/19/2005, 12:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Also, Here is the link to the LFS tank information
Quote:
I thought about it carefully and said YES, I wanted acrylic. If I had to do it over again, I would get glass hand down. The acrylic scratches VERY easily. We scratched both side walls of the tank putting in part 1 of the package. The rocks were large and difficult to move around, and barely brushed up on the side walls. Scratched them so easily.Glass is also cheaper to buy. Just make sure you get a RR tank no matter which way you decide to go.
__________________
Pat |
|
#36
03/19/2005, 12:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thanks Pat for the 'IMO' response...
Thanks Pat for your honesty on the rock. It's always nice to just hear about experience, and not have someone 'diss' other methods.
I think your probably right on the mark about 'what' I want. I really love the idea of having all of that life 'immediately'. I guess deep down I also like the adventure of the TBS rock. About the tank at the LFS. It is a separate sump system from the tank. Maybe I didn't make that clear before. Anyway, it doesn't matter. If I went with their sump, I could always just skip the Bio Balls. My issue then is that the Bio Ball area is a waste of space that I could be using for a refugium... Question: Sump prices compared to making your own... I have noticed that sumps for a 90g run around $250 - 400 dollars. Does anyone have any experience building their own? Is it any cheaper? I tried looking up Acrylic sheets on the web...and they ran around $250 for a smaller than plywood sheet. OUCH! The reality is that I really want a custom sump that has a BIGGER refugium area than the ones available commercially. Any suggestions? thanks again! Mark |
|
#38
03/19/2005, 12:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
 TO REEF CENTRAL MARK You have many of the same questions that we all did in the start  The use of bio-balls in a Fish Only (FO) system is okay and well reguarded, but in the reef system it will over time build up nitrates that corals and inverts can not tolerate and they will not grow to their full potential. During their brief atay at the Local Fish Store (LFS) is one thing, but once you get them to their new home (your tank) is another. The use of live rock takes the Nitrogen cycle one step further that bio-balls cannot do, and that is break down Nitrates to harmless gas that exchanges thru the water column As to which rock you perfer is a question only you can answer thru research. TBS rock is dense and not as pourous as Marshel of Fiji, so 90lbs of TBS looks smaller than 90lbs of Marshel and not to get too techy here but the flow through the TBS will be less (hence less surface area for bacteria) When you get TBS rock it comes right from the ocean tou your tank, and there is all the life forms that are most likely not going to be present on Fiji ect. Most Fiji is sprayed in a wharehouse and most life forms drop off or die in transit, so the question is dou you want all the life you can get and maybe have a mantis or so? Its a toss up, from what I hear thats part of the fun in the TBS, the divirsity of the life forms.  Good luck and feel free to ask any questions here, that is what Pats thread is all about, us Newbies 
__________________
Never be too shy to ask for help |
|
#40
03/19/2005, 12:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Thanks Pat for the 'IMO' response...
Quote:
__________________
Dennis |
|
#41
03/19/2005, 12:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Thanks Pat for the 'IMO' response...
Quote:
Once more....if I had to do it over again, I would have a custom sup made without a doubt. I'm having a microbubble problem because of the way mine currently is. If I didn't have to take everything out of the tank, I'd find someone to make me a sump now. I am using an external skimmer, and just the way we have it set up, it's not condusive to the sump. I'm using the area where the bio-balls were supposed to be for the water coming into the tank...as it was meant to be. Then the rest of the area is all open. I have the return pump in that open area and also have the intake/outflow from the skimmer in that area. You could probably use the thing you were thinking about getting, but I would either make sure it has some good baffles in it, to try and combat the dreaded microbubble problem, or just bite the bullet and do it right from the get-go, and either make a sump yourself or find someone locally that will make it for you. Here is a great link from someone who makes sumps. The page will show you different types and size sumps and also show you how to make them yourself. Sumps You can get acrylic elsewhere too. I believe Home Depot and Lowes sells acrylic sheets.
__________________
Pat |
|
#42
03/19/2005, 12:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
You can also do what many other people do, and that is to buy a regular glass tank and put your own baffles in it. That will be a lot less expensive than having a custom acrylic one made.
__________________
Pat |
|
#43
03/19/2005, 12:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Oh, sorry...I guess while I was typing, others answered.
See how nice it is when people are so willing to help out? That's why I like RC so much...great people that are always there to help and answer almost any questions you have.
__________________
Pat |
|
#44
03/19/2005, 12:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dennis...how are you making out with the canopy?
Is the guy going to finish it today? Are you going to paint the walls this weekend? Sorry for all the questions.....I am just as nearly excited for you to get going and get your TBS too!
__________________
Pat |
|
#45
03/19/2005, 12:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thanks Scuba Oz and Pat for the sump links...
Those both looks like good links for information. I am always amazed at how hard you can look on the web for information...and still miss the majority of it!
I will read up on the sumps, and hopefully make a more educated decision on what I want. P.S. Thanks everyone for their input on my topics. It IS great to know that so many people are out there for help and support... |
|
#46
03/19/2005, 01:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
__________________
Phil |
|
#47
03/19/2005, 01:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Newbie with questions about your experience...
Mark, most of your questions allready seem to be answered, but ill try and shed a little more light.
on my 29 i used a standard wet/dry sump. in place of bio-balls i had LR rubble. as Scuba Oz posted the LR will actually break the nitrates all the way down to a gaseous form. bio-balls are great at converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but fail to take the final step. scientifically, im not 100% sure why. the sump i used was priced at $175 at my LFS (i bought it used though for $40). for my 75 i used a standard AGA tank. it cost me $54. i bought one small sheet of acrylic from Home Depot. it cost me $24 and was enogh to do all of my baffles. i think HD will even cut them for you. i cut my own with a jig saw and it wasnt that hard. the main advantage of buildong yourself is you can partition it exactly like you want. i wanted a large refuge also, so i made that the major portion of the tank. as far as what rock to use.....its all up to you. guess you've heard that before. personally, i think its good to supplement with something other than TBS. not to save money, but for ease of placement. i have 150 pounds of mixed LR (50 TBS) in my tank. i dont think i could have placed 150 #s of TBS. there were so many bivalves, sponges, rose corals, tube corals, and cup corals that i dont think i could have stacked it all (like i want) into my 75. im very picky about rock placement and shape of structure though i do wish i would have gotten 80-90 pounds instead of 50 though. the more TBS you get the more diversity you get. im a prime example of that. i didnt get any mantis. i dont get any (large) gorilla crabs. i didnt get any isopods. i only got 1 aptasia. however, i didnt get but 1 porcelain crab, only a few snails, and no where close to the amount of different sponges Pat and some of the others got.it all depends on what you want, and i dont think that the figi in my tank has any better filtration capabilities, than the TBS. TBS has a bad rap for being bulky and dense. its just carribean rock, thats all. its not as pourus as some others, but its not like boulders either. mine was very diverse as far as shape goes. it was also very pourus to me. i was expecting all these football shape solid rocks, after reading post about them. i was very suprised at the variation of shape and tunnels through out the rock.
__________________
Landon |
|
#48
03/19/2005, 01:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
Landon |
|
#49
03/19/2005, 05:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Jason, it's the one on the fuge that's up, not the skimmer bubble trap. It would be 3 there, but I think I'm going to try it like it is, who knows, I might like it!
Pat, I have 2 poultry houses, I raise chickens for Tyson Foods. Every 9 weeks there's a new batch going out the door. Do I have to empty the tank to get the sump in? If the tank was full yes, I'd have to empty it and take the back braces of the POJ stand. My tank is still empty so no big deal right now. I think it was Landon said also to add a baffle now? I probably should but I'm going to wait and see. Let me rephrase about my stand, it's not a POJ, it's a POS! I don't know why I haven't caught it yet but the blasted overflow has 1/2 a 2 x 4 in the middle of it. The overflow and return pipes won't fit.  So I guess it'll be a new stand SOONER instead of later. Boy do I feel like a Dufus. |
|
#50
03/19/2005, 05:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Hi Mark! Welcome aboard. I know how you feel about your LFS. I felt the same way, they can be a great resource and help in time of need. It used to be the only/best source of information available to us. LFS's are still a necessity for many things. They can and do help a lot. There are also a lot of uniformed and biased ones out there. Be careful before your rely on there info alone. You're doing the right thing by researching first. The people here on RC are one of the best reference tools I have seen.
Custom sumps are great. A "factory" store bought can be okay, but IMO custom is better. I don't know where you are in Oregon but Acrylics (he's here on RC) is in Or. He seems to be one of the best making tanks and I think he does sumps also. HTH Johnny
__________________
Johnny |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
just do your research befoe you purchase, as im sure you will 
Linear Mode
