Too Short of Photoperiod for SPS?

[tcmfish]

I see the irony.

[flyingphish]

"we aren't trying to recreate the sun"? preposterous.

im trying to do everything possible to recreate the sun, the water, the moon, stars...the whole flippin' ocean!

[just dave]

Originally posted by flyingphish
"we aren't trying to recreate the sun"? preposterous.

im trying to do everything possible to recreate the sun, the water, the moon, stars...the whole flippin' ocean!

That's right. I even send research probes to my halides and slingshot around them on my way to work.

[danskim]

12.5 hours here... on T5s.
12.5 for the Blues and Actinics. About 8 for the Midday and Aquablues.

[Kolognekoral]

You know, I was looking for information, but now I'm just Eurotrash! Well, living in the country that put most of the products you are using on the saltwater market, I think I get a bit more info firsthand.

I came to this forum to exhange, but, apparently, many americans would rather bash and trash than discuss. You're doing yourselves a disservice.

But, I'm outa hear!

[dkh0331]

IMPHO you would have found that info if your approach would have indicated that you were truly looking for info.

Just my personal and humble opinion.

[Leopard Man]

5HRs with MH 400W 14K
12HRS with 2x24W T5s HO Actinics

Everything is doing fine on my 30Lx24Wx30H tank

[wastwage]

3hrs total

[Neptune777]

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
Are you talking about the Eurotrash that just cruised in here?

This comment is rude, harsh, and completely not value added to this thread! Everyone is allowed to express opinions here....even our friends across the big pond......so chill out a bit


I run 2x 250w 20k for 12hrs, and at mid-day I add an additional 2 x 250 14k mh for about 5hrs. I have T5 actinics running about 14 hrs total.

[bignick]

I run T5 actinics for 12hrs and 2-250w 14k for 11hrs.

[StrategicReef]

So what would be better for SPS..

150W for 9 hours
or 250W for shorter, like 5-6 hours?

[antonsemrad]

Originally posted by Kolognekoral
I suppose, if this works for you, then it works for you. It has nothing to do with recreating a reef environment, however!

You seem to be assuming that "recreating a reef environment" is the goal of all reef hobbyists. I propose that this is not the case.

Originally posted by Stoney Mahony
Now take an underwater lux meter and do the same thing and you will really be surprised. When the sun is at say 8 oclock, the light does not penetrate the water the same as it does at 12. From 9-10 to 1-2 you will have full intensity. Visibility increases unitl the sun is overhead, then it decreases until it is down. To say all reefs rec 10-12 hours of direct sunlight is absolutely wrong. Also, when the zooxenthella have reached there maximum light saturation levels, 4 more hours of light is going to do more harm than good. You would have to lower the light intensity and stretch it out to 12 hours. You will never be able to completely replicate the sun and thats why its so frickin great.

This seems to make a lot of sense to me. It also occurs to me that corals that are deeper or shaded, would get ideal light levels (grow) at midday. Also, corals that are on top/shallow grow durring dusk and dawn, and work all day to remove oxygen from their tissues. Also, corals can control the amount of zoox they harbor to ajust the amout of light that affects them.

I also think that shallow water corals have adapted to deal with photoinhibition over time, and are good at it.

Originally posted by jackson6745
Kolognekoral, IME, guys with higher PO4 levels can run longer photoperiods without color fading or bleaching. My po4 is .03 (hanna meter) if I ran my halides 10hrs per day I would bleach everything (been there). Try to stay open minded.
Over the past few years I have noticed guys keeping shorter photoperiods, along with better filtration (skimmers), and increased faded color threads. Notice the correlation?

Is it possible that with "better filtration", the corals get less food/energy to cope with photoinhibition? Why wouldn't oxygen removal come at an energy cost?

IMO 'you need x amount of light to grow SPS corals' is erroneous and gets confused with 'coloring up' arguments.

For me, at least, I think that the question is;

Originally posted by E-A-G-L-E-S
How do you evaluate possible over saturation besides the look/growth/color of an acropora?

Have any of you folks that like to run shorter photoperiods tried on and off cycles? Like a twelve hour day, with a few breaks during the day? A twelve hour day, with only 6-8 hours of bright light.

[marsh]

Study of calcification during a daily cycle of the coral Stylophora pistillata: implications for `light-enhanced calcification'
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/209/17/3413

This study basically says that the longer the lighted period the more calcification occurs in Stylophora. The rate of calcification was constant whether the hours of light were 12, 16 or 20 hours. Optimal calcification occurred at 100 µmol photons m-2 s-1 but there was evidently no photoinhibition up to 400 µmol photons m-2 s-1 for Stylophora.


Geochemical Perspectives on Coral Mineralization
http://rimg.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/...e2=tf_ipsecsha
This review article does not disagree but also points out that during the non-lit phase (not to be confused with the light-independent reactions also called the Calvin-Benson Cycle, and formerly known as the Dark Reactions) that centers of calcification (COC) are begun in the dark and the increased calcification rate during hours of light increase the density of corals. New COC's are laid down every night leading to a lengthening of the coral.

One might hypothesize that longer dark periods will lead to long fragile corals and those with increased lighted hours will lead to short dense corals.

The first study looked a radioactive Ca++ uptake over a 24hr period not long term. Nevertheless, it might be reasonable to conclude that long term photoperiods for 12 hours or more near the light intensity for optimal calcification (i.e. saturating light intensity for calcification) in any hard coral would not inhibit calcification. Different Genus or species or coloration of a species may have different light intensities for optimal calcification as well as photoinhition.

I conclude that those hobbyists choosing to decrease the photoperiod to x hours choose to do so but will have less coral growth compared to another hobbyist who chooses a longer photoperiod. With lessor photoperiods there are benefits in terms electricity costs and perhaps algae growth.

Photoinhibition appears to occur in all Symbiodinium symbionts (except Clams?). Amongst other things, photoinhibition is a function of light intensity, algae clad, coral coloration, etc.http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/3/aafeature1 It does not appear to be a function of photoperiod to my reading.

[marsh]

Geochemical Perspectives on Coral Mineralization

rimg.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/full/54/1/151?ijkey=37a57d75ef029c200d8f7be73415ad969c42cacd&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

http://rimg.geoscienceworld.org/cgi...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

I don't know why but the link seems to change/truncate when I use the URL tags...for those of you who wish to wade through please copy and paste...

[MrPike]

Thank you so much Kolognekoral for living in a country that made reefkeeping possible.

[JRoweNole]

Kolognekoral:

Please do not generalize about Americans due to one idiot being rude to you and generalizing about Europeans.

I have seen you post many times and appreciate your questions, feedback & knowledge.

Most of us really are good people and like many different nationalities!

Thanks.

[db_triggerfish]

JRoweNole, Well stated. Thanks Kolognekoral for your input.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by Kolognekoral
You know, I was looking for information, but now I'm just ...

Ignore the troll, the rest of us are quite nice

Also realize that underneath every post, there is a `report to moderator' link. In cases like this, use it.

When people are being obviously offensive, don't hesitate to report it [better plan than replying + letting them know you are offended .... which is likely their intention]. As the saying says `Never argue with a fool, it only brings you down to their level'.

This `report' sends a notice to all Mods of that forum, who generally have a low tolerance towards behaviour that is offensive or violates the User Agreement ... like this. Then we will PM each other and discuss as needed, come up with a solution that we generally agree on - and you can just forget it, go on posting and enjoying ReefCentral.

I know I'm not alone in enjoying your input here

[wife no likey]

. .and people wonder why everyone hates americans. . .LOL

[VaderWS6]

75 gallon ~ 7 hours 440watt VHO actinics, 5 hours dual 250watt overdriven XM 10k's. My shorter photoperiod is mainly to control heat issues. (once the lights are out, the aquarium is around 80-82F) Excellent color and growth.

[Jar*Head]

4hrs MH (4x400) 7hrs VHO here . Coral doing well and some color

[Zoom]

10 hour of 200W PC and 6 hours three 250W xm 10K MH , now for two years no problems at all with this lighting period.

[Jar*Head]

Dude, just wanna let you know. Not all American are as anal as whoever you get offended to. I am vietnamese, i serve in the military and yet i love America... Do you know where the term "Devil dog" came from? I love my American folks.... let not talk about them. Thanks

[Scissorhand]

lol... if you haven't noticed. it hasn't been talked about since April. you just brought it up again.

[Leopard Man]

2hrs with 400w metal halide and 10 hrs with t5 actinics. No complaints.