potter's angel

RoscoPColtrane · #1 08/16/2006, 11:57 AM

Does anyone have experience with these. The research I have done indicates they are difficult to keep. the information i have found is very limited. any help would be greatly appreciated.

emilese · #2 08/16/2006, 12:41 PM

Did a quick search here on RC, here are a couple links to threads about Potter's Angels:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ghlight=potter

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ghlight=potter

Miles

GeoffSFAs10 · #3 08/16/2006, 12:53 PM

we got one in at work and my buddy who worked there bought it. it was doing great and eating like a pig but it died suddenly for osme reason

Nami19 · #4 08/16/2006, 01:40 PM

I know a couple people who have had great success with them. The key is the same for most fish, find one that is eating prepared foods.

RocketSeason · #5 08/16/2006, 01:49 PM

Thanks for the Links emilese! I can't ever get search to work and thats very, very annoying.

RoscoPColtrane · #6 08/16/2006, 03:57 PM

thanks for the links, search was down when I tried.

zemuron114 · #7 08/16/2006, 11:54 PM

small ones do much better, and usually eat within a few weeks after introduction. DO NOT QT them.. they will not make it through quaratine (unless you see it eat before you buy - which rarely happens at a LFS) they do great if you put them directly into an established system (6+ months) one of my favorite small angels

ACBlinky · #8 08/17/2006, 12:09 AM

They're my dream centerpiece fish, but I've never had luck with Potter's angels. The first one died of a nasty bacterial infection that didn't respond to antibiotics, the second refused to eat and died after a week, the third was eating like a pig and then died suddenly. None were quarantined, they all went into a well-established reef. I love angels and have others that are positively thriving, but I've given up trying to keep a Potter's.

emilese · #9 08/17/2006, 10:08 AM

No problem.

They are one of my favorite fish also. I've seen some sites say they need a minimum of a 30g tank. IMO, they need a larger tank than that because they are a pretty active fish and IMO get too big for a 30g. I've tried them twice in the past in a similarly sized tank and was unsuccessful. If you have a large enough, established tank and the specimen is healthy and eating, you should be OK.

Miles

zemuron114 · #10 08/17/2006, 10:41 AM

If you skip the wholesale part of the equation they usually do much better.
IE: the collector catches them, holds them for 4-5 days, ships them to a wholesaler. The wholesaler holds them for 1-3 weeks (usually without feeding) and then ships to a LFS. By the time it hits the LFS, they are way to stressed and usually dont make it. If you can get it straight from a collector, the chances are so much higher. Same with moorish idols

LargeAngels · #11 08/17/2006, 12:41 PM

I've also found that my potters are more like plankton feeders than grazers. In the beginning they did graze some, but now they continuously swim and hover and eat little bits of food floating in the water. Although they do not venture very far from the safety of the rocks. I don't know if this is more of a learned adaptation to aquarium life or natural. Maybe some collector who see's them in the wild can comment (zemuron114.)

Amphiprion · #12 08/17/2006, 12:55 PM

I haven't personally seen them in the wild, but I have seen photos of them feeding and they feed primarily on the benthos, rasping at algae and consuming detritus. This is also revealed from records of multiple observations made in the wild. Many fish (even benthic feeders) will opportunistically take food from the water column (and aquarium feedings are indeed opportunistic for the fish), so I don't doubt that they would occasionally do so in the wild. In the aquarium, manual feedings will be the angel's primary source of food, so to a degree, it is a slight adaptation.

SDguy · #13 08/17/2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amphiprion
I haven't personally seen them in the wild, but I have seen photos of them feeding and they feed primarily on the benthos, rasping at algae and consuming detritus. This is also revealed from records of multiple observations made in the wild. Many fish (even benthic feeders) will opportunistically take food from the water column (and aquarium feedings are indeed opportunistic for the fish), so I don't doubt that they would occasionally do so in the wild. In the aquarium, manual feedings will be the angel's primary source of food, so to a degree, it is a slight adaptation.

I saw a couple when diving off Kauai. Nothing but rasping at the rocks, CONSTANTLY. Watched them for some time too.

Amphiprion · #14 08/17/2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDguy
I saw a couple when diving off Kauai. Nothing but rasping at the rocks, CONSTANTLY. Watched them for some time too.

Well, there you go

. I think it is different in the wild where these fish have an ample supply of their preferred foods. That is also consistent with what I have seen in pictures, in data/records, and in most aquaria. Some fish (individuals and species) are also more malleable in their behavior. I know of at least a handful of people who never had their C. potteri accept prepared foods, so it depends. I still wonder, though if at least some wild individuals would occasionally feed opportunistically if presented with the chance to do so.

dvmsn · #15 08/17/2006, 02:02 PM

I had one that was reef safe. It would only occasionally peck at the rocks. I thought, "I'd love a pair". Added a smaller one that promptly taught the larger one how wonderful corals taste. They killed a 12" slimer in a week.

zemuron114 · #16 08/17/2006, 02:54 PM

They are grazers for the most part. I dont think i've ever seen one eat out of the water column. But they usually swim away if approached and hide in the rocks.

LargeAngels · #17 08/22/2006, 08:13 AM

For the first time ever I observed one of my potters cleaning one of my flagfins. The flagfin stopped and flared infront of the potters and the potters cleaned one side and then he cleaned the other side. Anyone seen this?

RGBMatt · #18 08/22/2006, 12:46 PM

I've had good luck getting Potter's to eat in QT. It usually takes about a week; not much different from adding them to an established tank. The only danger is that if the fish is already malnourished, it might not survive long enough to begin taking food. I've never had Potter's take longer than a week to eat, but my experience has all been with freshly caught specimens so YMMV.

Remember that the whole point of QT isn't to make your new fish happier, but to avoid killing your tank with disease - skipping quarantine is playing with fire! If you don't run copper in your QT, you can always drop in a couple chunks of live rock from your main tank.

RocketSeason · #19 08/22/2006, 01:02 PM

I am getting a freshly caught specimen from the collector in the middle of september. Should I QT the fish and try to get him on prepared foods then, or should I dump him in the display and try to work him off of the grazing over time? He should only be out of the ocean a few days by the time I get him.

And what prepared foods should I use? Thanks!

jeffmdavis · #20 08/22/2006, 09:28 PM

I had a Potters for almost 6 months. It was doing great! I fed it Frozen Mysis, flake food, and brine Shrimp. It was growing and got along well it's tank mates. Over about a two week period, it all of a sudden started lookng bad. From the backbone up it started looking thin and started loosing its color. It went from looking great to dead in two weeks. It was very sad, I love the fish and it is in my opinion one of the best looking small angel! I think I will get another one some day but I now have a lemon peel angel which is doing great and is healthy! It would not get along with a potters. maybe I'll add anew tank!

Rondelet · #21 08/23/2006, 12:34 AM

I have a Potter's currently in a "Q" system for about a month now. I say "Q" as it's more of an acclimation/holding system with a few good pieces of live rock, tons of Caulerpa, Halimedia and a couple of inverts. Where possible, I like to observe new arrivals and ensure they are eating well for a few weeks before putting them in my main display.

On entry the fish was rather skittish, but quit inquisitive. At first it went for some SFBB BS (frozen) in the water column, but then a couple of days later started to spit it out. I tried a couple ON frozen formulas (Angel, F2 and Spirulina). It seems to like the Spirulina the best. However, with the large amount of macro algae in the tank I suspect it is foraging quite a bit on natural stuff. It readily eats out of the water column, but is not quick off the mark - so I try to toss the food in near it. It also seems to prefer small piece sizes. However, I've also observed it picking up food from the bottom (the tank is bare bottom). Haven't seen it grazing algae off the tank glass or rock (there is lots). I agree with LargeAngels that it stays close to it's secure spot under a sponge filter and tends to dart in and out.

Can't really comment on how hard it is to keep as it still very early days.

Ooulophilia · #22 08/23/2006, 01:44 AM

I never understood the potters angel - they always come out of Hawaii, and Hawaii fish are usually solid. I will reiterate earlier posts, they do great but seem to wane away after 2/3 weeks. It is very rare to see lympho on centryopyge sp. but sometimes I see it on potters.

Angel*Fish · #23 08/23/2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LargeAngels
For the first time ever I observed one of my potters cleaning one of my flagfins. The flagfin stopped and flared infront of the potters and the potters cleaned one side and then he cleaned the other side. Anyone seen this?

Wow that's pretty cool - and no I've never seen this even with other species of Centropyge - but Potter's angels are very much detrivores, that's for sure.

There's another thread going on this and one point that was made is that a sterile tank is not a suitable environment. I was thinking that probably many people who feel comfortable trying a Potter's often feel more confident because they have such a successful "clean" tank - when it may be that those tanks with a few nitrates and a little algae would be more suitable candidates for a Potter's - just a thought

Maybe a dying coral would even be a good item to include in a Potter's quarantine ???

And if possible a flagfin

j/k

Angel*Fish · #24 08/23/2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rondelet
I have a Potter's currently in a "Q" system for about a month now. I say "Q" as it's more of an acclimation/holding system with a few good pieces of live rock, tons of Caulerpa, Halimedia and a couple of inverts. Where possible, I like to observe new arrivals and ensure they are eating well for a few weeks before putting them in my main display.

On entry the fish was rather skittish, but quit inquisitive. At first it went for some SFBB BS (frozen) in the water column, but then a couple of days later started to spit it out. I tried a couple ON frozen formulas (Angel, F2 and Spirulina). It seems to like the Spirulina the best. However, with the large amount of macro algae in the tank I suspect it is foraging quite a bit on natural stuff. It readily eats out of the water column, but is not quick off the mark - so I try to toss the food in near it. It also seems to prefer small piece sizes. However, I've also observed it picking up food from the bottom (the tank is bare bottom). Haven't seen it grazing algae off the tank glass or rock (there is lots). I agree with LargeAngels that it stays close to it's secure spot under a sponge filter and tends to dart in and out.

Can't really comment on how hard it is to keep as it still very early days.

Next time you should include the now established obligatory flagfin angel to make this fish feel more at home lol j/k

Seriously, that's the way to do it - especially for the more sensitive angels - worked like a charm for my Singapore! Seems like there's been a trend lately of getting away from the idea that dwarf angels need LR with lush growth for some reason

RGBMatt · #25 08/23/2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocketSeason
I am getting a freshly caught specimen from the collector in the middle of september. Should I QT the fish and try to get him on prepared foods then, or should I dump him in the display and try to work him off of the grazing over time? He should only be out of the ocean a few days by the time I get him.

And what prepared foods should I use? Thanks!

The fish will probably start eating just as fast whether or not you put it in QT. If it's a recent catch, you shouldn't have to worry about it starving; unless it's a very small fish it should be OK without food for 2-3 weeks while it adjusts.

The most important thing to consider is that the fish is coming straight from a large holding system with lots of potentially diseased tankmates. QTing fish like this is a no-brainer.

Quote:

I had a Potters for almost 6 months. It was doing great! I fed it Frozen Mysis, flake food, and brine Shrimp. It was growing and got along well it's tank mates. Over about a two week period, it all of a sudden started lookng bad. From the backbone up it started looking thin and started loosing its color.

Potter's angels have a largely herbivorous diet. It's no surprise that it became malnourished.

Quote:

It is very rare to see lympho on centryopyge sp. but sometimes I see it on potters.

A lot of wild Potter's angels have it. Same for a lot of other fish from here - Yellow and Achilles tangs especially. It's not really something to be worried about.