Longest wait for diatoms to disappear.

[cd77]

My tank is about 6 weeks old. This is a bit wordy, so I apologize in advance..

I've got diatoms (or some other form of gold/brown algae) covering the sand bed with a little on the glass.

The refugium (with plenty of Chaeto, mud, some crushed dead coral, and LR rubble) is full of all sorts of algae, though mostly a red slime (cyano I presume) -- I'm not to worried about this so long as it doesn't start getting into my tank.

I'm feeding very conservatively, and my lighting is at 8 hours/day.

Nitrates/Phosphates test zero, Silicates test very low -- though with the diatoms I know the test results really don't mean much as the algae is obviously feeding off of something.

Would it be a fair assumption to assume my LR is still decaying and that I didn't get the highest quality rock from my LFS store? This seems to be the conclusion I've come to. I'm also working to get better flow going in the tank as well to try to get that rock nice and clean..

Right now, I'm just doing regular water changes (RODI w/TDS=0, Reef Crystals/IO mixture while I migrate to Reef Crystals only)

My thoughts are just to keep up with regular tank maintenance, use the turkey baster before doing water changes to try to manually get as much gunk out as possible before the water change (10 gallons / week change)

1. Would you suspect the LR is primary the cause? If so, should I just wait for it to subside?

2. If not, what additional measures would you take? A lot of people suggest reducing the lighting, but if the problem is decay from the LR, it would seem that I'd just be pro-longing the diatoms.

3. I don't hate algae, I love it, I need it to survive and so do you. I just don't like to look at it in my tank. What is the longest diatom outbreak anyone here has had to deal with a new tank setup? I seem to read most people have theirs cleared in 2-3 weeks. Can it take up to 4 weeks? 8 weeks?

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated!

[papagimp]

Sounds normal to me. I woulnd't point the finger at anything in particular expect maybe yourself. You did want a tank, and since this is a normal process for new setups, don't worry about it at all. Just watch the things you can control for now, such as lighting, making sure flow is sufficient, especially near the sandbed, and that you do your proper maintance on the tank, water changes, ect. ect.

Every new setup is going to be a little different and have different amounts of these nutrients that the algae phases feed on, ya just kinda have to wait em out. I've had it take as long as 6 weeks before, but it can and will vary, my last setup (75g stoney coral tank) went through the diatoms, dino's, cyno, and hair aglae phases in less than a month. Hair algae was completely gone in under a couple weeks. While my first tank went probably 3-4 months before the last of the cyno was gone.

Doestn' really sound like you have alot to worry about yet. but just for sake of arguments, what type/how much flow do you have in the tank right now?

fwiw, if you can keep a freshwater planted tank, this should be a cake walk, IMO. (my planted tanks never looked as good as my reefs, and they were more of a pita)

[barbra]

It can take longer, especially in slow-moving areas of the tank. My 120g went through it's diatom period in about a week, but my 75 still had spots after several weeks, so I relocated the flow and it cleared up promptly. There is the possibility that it was going to clear up anyway and I just moved things at a time that made it appear as if it helped, but it's not a stretch to think that moving things helped.

[papagimp]

Not a stretch at all, reducing deadspots and lowflow area's makes a world of difference when fighting diatoms.

[cd77]

Right now, the return pump is pushing I figure between 850-900GPH after the head, and I've got two aquaclears with hydor attachments in the back to circulate water through the rock, and one Koralia 3 in the back right hand corner, and a Koralia 1 in the forward left hand corner (near the overflow chamber) I plan to move these around today and am considering purchasing another Koralia 3 and ditching the Aquaclears -- I'm thinking about placing them on opposite corners (one forward, one aft) facing eachother to create some turbulance.. My concern with lowering them as that I have a 6" sand bed and don't want to disturb it too much.

Can disturbing the first inch or so of the DSB cause a crash by disturbing the nitrifying bacteria that live there? Or is just the deeper portions of the DBS that I have to concerned with?

[papagimp]

Originally posted by cd77
Can disturbing the first inch or so of the DSB cause a crash by disturbing the nitrifying bacteria that live there? Or is just the deeper portions of the DBS that I have to concerned with?

disturbing the upper portion may disturb some detritus that has been trapped, but not going to hurt the bacteria too much. The anerobic bacteria that lives in DSB is in the lower no oxygen zones. 800-900 gph throught the fuge, how big of a fuge are we talking about? Anything less than 50g and you should be okay with that. If the alage doesn't appear to be getting enough flow around it, just add a nother koralia to the fuge. I've had anything from 300gph in a 10g fuge to 1200gph in a 20g fuge. Ya got plenty of leeway there. May just take al ittle playing around with. if you need, get the koralia's to replace the HOB's and put those in the fuge without the filer media in them.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

On a tank as old as yours, the sandbed has not developed much of a bacterial population, much less striated itself into the various zones discussed when speaking about DSB's. Plus, there really hasn't been enough time to accumulate any sort of nutrient load in the sandbed, so disturbing it at this point should do nothing but cloud the water for a few minutes.

Plenty of people never win the battle with nuisance algae, other tanks never even have the battle. Many people consider this random, I consider it a goal to be focused on. When dealing with any nuisance algae problem, the key is to just beat the algae at it's own game. Remove the things it needs to thrive and it will go away. This means:

1) Concentrate on nutrient export. Do exactly what you're doing for water changes, run your skimmer wet, and keep the chaeto in your 'fuge trimmed well enough that it doesn't start to get stagnant.

2) Increase flow to dead areas. Sounds like you have plans for this, too.

3) Don't import (add) any nutrients to the tank that you don't need to! You mentioned that you are feeding lightly, but you didn't mention any livestock. If you don't have any, don't feed!

4) If the cycle is complete (I am assuming it is at this point?) get some aggressively growing coral species in the tank to start uptaking nutrients with the goal of out-competing the algae. Keep these species isolated so they don't take over your rockwork. Try things like green star polyps or xenia. It's really breathtaking how quickly these species can grow in the right environment, and just like the macro algae in your 'fuge, as they're growing they are sucking nutrients from the water.

5) Don't turn your lights down or off, because as you've guessed that's not solving the real problem here. You need to break your tank in with the same equipment and practices as you'll run it long-term where possible, otherwise you'll just go through some of the cycling phases again when you DO start using full lighting, etc.

Another note - you mention that there is a ton of slimy algae in the refugium. Get it out! It's sucked up nutrients as it has grown, so physically removing it now will export those nutrients form your system. Plus, by leaving it there, all you're doing is providing a source of spores to the main tank to keep it springing up there.

[papagimp]

well put!

[Vinnie71975]

Snails and Hermits my tank had the same problem and i put in margarita snails and blue leg hermits and my tank is looking better by the day. Just a thought.

[cd77]

Ok -- I'm going to snap some pictures here in a few for you to look at. The sump/refugium is a Pro Flex 100 -- about 15G of water in it when running is my estimation. The pump is a Mag 9.5. I asked earlier about adding circulation to the fuge and was told definitely no, and I was also told to keep the algae in the fuge where it belongs -- How would I clean this out without it leaking and the return pump eventually spitting it out all over the tank?

Let me get my camera loaded here and I'll put some pictures for you to see -- all of your advice is excellent, but maybe pictures would give you a better idea as to what I'm dealing with

I'm dry skimming right now -- I'll get that changed as soon as I've topped off my ATO (filling right now) and I've done my water change. Thank you for that advice.

Livestock:
1. Yellow Hawaiian Tang (I'm aware this may outgrow my tank and have someone with a larger tank willing to take it as it grows beyond comfort for my tank)
2. 2x Clowns (don't know the species)
3. 1 Green Chromis
4. CUC: 3x Cleaner Shrimp
5. CUC: Various Turbo Snails, Ceriths, other small snails (~20 total)
6. CUC: About 10 Scarlet Hermit Crabs
7. Three small sofy corals (the picture will explain it all)
8. Two varieties of mushrooms

The fish and coral appear to be healthy and happy.

Yes, the tank is definitely cycled. I'm not dosing anything right now. The 400 calcium is probably because I'm slowly switching to reef crystals.

Here are my latest readings done yesterday at 8pm or so:
Temp: 80.2F
Salinity: 1.0265
pH: 8.1 (a little low, but I understand that the decay from LR can be acidic so I'm closely monitoring it as it progresses through the algae stages)
Alk: 10 dKH
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 (though unreliable because of algae)
Calcium: 400
Phosphate: 0 (again, maybe unreliable because of algae)
Silica: 0.1 (first time I've tested, may be totally off, I've heard the hobby silica tests aren't the greatest, and again can't rely on results as algae likes silicates..)

Will post pics in as soon as I can find the camera! Thanks again for your detailed replies and reading my lengthy posts

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by cd77
Ok -- I'm going to snap some pictures here in a few for you to look at. The sump/refugium is a Pro Flex 100 -- about 15G of water in it when running is my estimation. The pump is a Mag 9.5. I asked earlier about adding circulation to the fuge and was told definitely no, and I was also told to keep the algae in the fuge where it belongs -- How would I clean this out without it leaking and the return pump eventually spitting it out all over the tank?

I really don't think you need more flow in your 'fuge, unless the design is just wacky. Shut the return pump off and let everything settle, then scoop the nuisance algae out of the 'fuge. Depending on how thick your chaeto is, now might be a good time to prune that back, too. I like to keep it pretty loose, otherwise you get areas of dead flow and hence pest algae will grow on it. As long as there is a suitable mass of it in there, it'll still do it's job of uptaking nutrients as it grows.

The nuisance algae may have taken off in the 'fuge like that due to your choice of lighting or a hundred other factors. Again though, I wouldn't change anything - just get it out for now. If it keeps growing back in there, then maybe consider changing some things.

Otherwise, just keep doing as you are doing. It sounds like you are on the right track and things should work out soon.

[cd77]

der_wille_zur_macht -- Will do, I'll try the best I can to get it clean this evening

I've got some pics in case anyone can find anything else at fault here -- will post in just a second, they're already in my gallery.

[cd77]

Picture of the cabinet including the pro flex sump, protein skimmer, and ATO:



Close up view of the refugium (with plenty of algae) as described before:

[cd77]

Right hand side of tank showing Koralia 3 pump, an aquaclear in the back, a few softies, and plenty of algae:



Left side of tank, return, AQ pumps, plenty of algae:



Far left side of tank showing Koralia 1, and return, one coral and again, more algae:



Side view of tank (from left side) to give an idea as to the diatom distribution, making me think flow is definitely a concern for the tank itself:



Please, if you see anything that requires immediate attention, or have any suggestions I'm all ears! I have another Koralia 3 being shipped right now from F&S, and I'll be putting a phosban reactor in with pump as well to get a jump start on phosphate buildup though I doubt it is yet an issue with this new of a tank I was advised there is no harm in getting that going soon.

Thank you all again, and my apologies for this wordy, image intense thread.

[Thinslis]

Thats how my tank is looking at the moment but its to be expected on mine since its cycling. It has only been up about 2 weeks.

[cd77]

Thinslis -- you're still reading ammonia and nitrites and you already have all of this algae? Diatoms didn't show for me until after my nitrates started building up and amm/ni were zero -- The refugium algae didn't show up until a few days after the diatoms were showing in the display.

[cd77]

BTW -- if it makes any difference, my ultimate goal for this SW tank (my first) is primarily a nice collection of soft corals and eventually (I'll wait a year after the tank is established, I've learned/experienced more and all my levels stay steady) is to add a bulb anemone to hopefully host my clowns which appear to be paired.

[Thinslis]

My nitrites have been on a sharp decline, went from 5 to .3 in a few days, might be 0 today but I havn't tested. Yesterdays test was the first time I had shown any Ammonia in the tank. I'll test it again tomorrow and see what it says. But yes I have LOTS of brown algae, it was first spotted on Monday or Tuesday and is in full swing at the moment.

[jasonh]

Originally posted by cd77
Thinslis -- you're still reading ammonia and nitrites and you already have all of this algae? Diatoms didn't show for me until after my nitrates started building up and amm/ni were zero -- The refugium algae didn't show up until a few days after the diatoms were showing in the display.

I don't think there's really any set formula for this. My diatoms started when my ammonia peaked at a whopping 1 and nitrites were at .1. 0 nitrates. It has mostly subsided now that I have a few crabs and snails, but still there. Everybody's tank is different.

[cd77]

That seems to be how it is.

I was hoping the pictures I posted might shed some light on obvious problems, but apparently the original advice offered by papagimp, barbra, and der_wille_zur_macht still hold true. I'll be spending my night cleaning the fuge and I guess I'll be wet skimming -- which means I'll be emptying the skim cup daily, oh joy! Can't wait to get that extra Koralia -- I'm hoping the extra flow will really help out.

[75Gallons]

I think diatoms growth levels are controlled by the silica levels in the water instead of nitrate/ammonia levels like cyanobacteria and a lot of other algaes are.

[cd77]

Originally posted by 75Gallons
I think diatoms growth levels are controlled by the silica levels in the water instead of nitrate/ammonia levels like cyanobacteria and a lot of other algaes are.

What type of measures do you take to reduce silicates when pre-treating your water? Do you use silicate removing compounds both when you treat your water and in your tank/sump?

[dastratt]

Looks like you have "new tank syndrome." No worries, just keep down the nutrient import, work on flow, but mainly sit back and wait for a few more weeks.

[cd77]

Cool Will do!

[kysard1]

I set up my tank about 90 days ago, same diatom outbreaks. Added a $30 chinese knockoff phosban rxn and the diatoms went away.