QT tank troubles

[tanyashankles]

I am having difficulties. I started this incredibly fascinating hobby at about the end of summer 07, and after paying the consequences of impatience, and learning a little, My main tank is doing fabulous. I have:
1 powder brown tang, 1 scopas tang (these two are best friends)
2 maroon clowns, 1 three stripe damsel, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 devils hand soft coral, 1 tiny little mushroom, 3 zoa frags with 15- 20 polyps, some (about 10) nassir' snails, 10 or so tiny hermits, some scallops, oysters, and clams for filtering, and about 50 lbs LR . Everyone is happy as can be. So I decide to make a 10 gallon (i know soo small) QT, and I had an extra canister filter that I hooked up to it with LR rubble inside, and decided to use the water straight outta my main tank to fill the QT and then replace the water in my main, sorta like doing a small water change. I put my jumbo hermit in there, and he was doing fine, then i put a scallop and a snail and clam in there, and a decorator crab, no fishies, just 2 crabs, and about a week went by and the shellfish were dead (rotten egg dead Peeeeyeeewww) and contaminated the tang, and killed the decorator crab. We emptied the tank and filter immediately and put the hermit back into the main, and refilled with fresh r/o di salt water. Can you tell me what I did wrong? Is it possible to have a tank so small be successful? Thanks!! TS

[Purple Penguins]

and this is the 55 gal tank? if so thats what could be wrong, Tangs of that sort should not be in a 55 gal tank and with that being the tank size it seems your bio load is probably stressed.

a powder brown tang should be in a tank of at least 125 gals, and the scopas tang in about 70 gals of water

[The Floodinator]

Why did you put the inverts in the QT? Does the QT have a light on it that can meet the clams needs? Was the tang in QT before you put in all the others?

[tanyashankles]

No no I meant TANK not tang. I have tangs, but they are just fine. The 55 g tank is doing fabulous. I will get a larger tank when I can but for now the tangs are small. My failure was my 10 g QT tank. It contaminated the tank... The scallops are doing great in the main tank, and I was told they are great filter feeders so I put one in the QT. It isnt a fancy scallop, just a little fan shaped shell. I didnt realize these guys needed special lighting, I have enough lighting on my main tank, but the PC light over the QT is only 24 w. only about 2 watts per g. I have a 175 watt Mh reef light that Im not using but wouldnt that cook them, only being in a 10g tank? Again let me say my tangs are fine, it is the TANK I meant. Is it absolutely necessary to have LR in the QT? I have live sand and crushed coral in there (that I ended up having to vacuum because of the death smell). My readings are haywire too, since 'the incident' , with ph going way too low, (gonna go read them all, hang on...)OK Here are the readings on the QT... Nitrate 20ppm, Nitrite 1.0 ppm, kh 300+ ppm, pH 7.4, s.g. 1.023. This is AFTER the clean up.

[tanyashankles]

Here is what I have just to clarify any confusion...
1 (haywire) 10g QT. in it is:
2" substrate (crushed coral and live sand mix)
1 small piece of LR (about 1 lb)
small heater (keeping water at 78 degrees)
Jebo canister filter (300 gallon per day or per hour however measured)
Inside this filter is LR rubble, then foam filter pad, then blue filter pad, then white really tight woven pad)
ammonia level on QT is 0ppm
24 watts PC light
Started with water, substrate, LR, and canister filter EVERYTHING, off of main tank, even the canister had been running on the main tank. Does it still need to cycle? The QT has been running for about 3 weeks. But I had to start over when everything died because of the serious contamination.
No livestock right now.


MAIN tank: (levels are stable and fish are doing fine, just FYI on this tank)
55g
wet dry trickle filter with LR rubble and bio balls
heater (78 degrees)
60 or so lb of LR
devils hand soft coral (pictured above)
3 frags
clean up crew
little plain scallops
oysters
tiny little white baby clams (not fancy)
one 3 inch powder brown tang
one 2 inch scopas
two 2inch maroon clowns
one 3stripe damsel (1 inch)
one lawnmower blenny

and thats it... The jumbo hermit is in there in restricted space because he is aggressive, but as soon as The QT is figured out he is going back in there. I have a total of 5 fish (is a blenny a fish? if so 6 fishes)

[kgouso]

If I am reading your posts correctly, it sounds like you may be using a QT in a different way than I have been reading (and using) for my own use.

I think the "jist" of a QT tank is to have a smaller tank that can be set up on a moments notice. You would use no substrate or live rock in the QT (unless its the rock that your a QTing)

Typically (I think) the QT tank would be a bare bottom tank that you only add water from your DT...(This is why they are typically smaller tanks)...I use a cheap 5 gallon tank that I can set up for acclimation, and or emergency QT. Add your water from your DT by drip for acclimation or syphon to fill it right away. (I also have a small removable plastic ship that I put in to allow a new fish to hide...U can also just put PVC Pipe in there)

Once you are done with the QT and the QTd occupant is back in the DT.......The QT water is disposed of and the tank is put away until the next acclimation or emergency.

IF you are trying to keep a separate tank full time that you want to use for QT, and you are going to use live rock and sand, it would need to cycle just like any other tank before you can add livestock....However...if you introduce a sick fish into that tank for QT...the tank is now "sick" (so to speak) It may than take months for that tank (with no fish) to be well again ...I would not want to expose another fish to that now contaminated QT tank....(Thus the reason for the breakdown of a QT between uses)

I am by no means an expert as I a brand new to this all myself, but that is how I understand the "intent" of a QT tank to be used.

(I am sure someone will correct me if I am off base)

[spike78]

Your QT won't need to cycle if you are using water and filtration that's from your display. It should be good to go.

You really shouldn't be using any live substrates in your QT in case you need to medicate the tank. I just have my QT with a bare bottom and a plastic castle for the fish to hide in. (Machine Washable

On another note, your shellfish are filter feeders and are notoriously hard to care for due to their need for copious amount of plankton that your 55 gallon tank (sans refugium and plankton reactor) is in no way going to be able to provide. The event you had in your QT is most likely due to having inappropriate livestock in the tank. (Shellfish died, rotted, and killed the others in the tank)

On a side note, you have too much, and inappropriate livestock for your 55 gallon tank. If I were you, I would either find homes for some of your fish (probably the tangs) and get rid of the shellfish, or go out today an get at least a 125 gallon tank and use your 55 as a proper sump. I have a funny feeling your on your way to a catastrophic crash with the stocking stress along with the shellfish.

If you really want to keep shellfish in your tank, I recommend Anthony Calfo's "Reef Invertebrates" book as a reference. There is a lot of good information there to help you properly care for these animals. (One of my favorite books)

[The Floodinator]

My QT is a 55gal. acrylic tank. It has water in it 365 days a year. I use a Fluval canister filter, also running 365. There is no sand or gravel (research the life cycle of Ich). I have 3 large pieces of dead Acro that I use to give the fish a place to hide. In between new fish these pieces of Acro are pulled from the tank and dried.
I run the S.G. about 1.016-1.019. This is called hypo salinity and not only does it reduce the stress on the fish, it helps to kill paracites. Unfortunately inverts, for the most part, can't handle the hypo so it's a fish only set up.
In one of my sumps I have a hang on power filter where I keep a sponge for the Fluval. This keeps it ready to use.
I've done in this way for about a year and have yet to lose a fish. Not saying it's the best, just that I've had succes this way.
And finally, if your clams are the fancy kind (crocea, derasa etc.) they have a high light need.

[Myrddraal]

Originally posted by The Floodinator

I run the S.G. about 1.016-1.019. This is called hypo salinity and not only does it reduce the stress on the fish, it helps to kill paracites.

That's not hypo, at least not for ich. Hypo for ich is 1.009, exactly.

[tanyashankles]

Oops.. Ok now I get the idea in the QT thing. I dont know how I thought running another tank full time was going to benefit a quarantined fish when it would just contaminate the small tank. DUH. I feel like a moron. Ok so I will remove the substrate. I plan on getting a 125 g tank with our tax return my husband doesnt know it yet tho... lol For some reason I thought that a QT had to be running all the time, but it makes alot more sense that it doesnt. I have studied the ich parasite and understand the life cycle, which is why i was confused about what to do with the QT my tang has been battling. None of the other fish have any signs of it, but the powder brown keeps getting it. I was looking into the kick ich since it is reef safe, what do you think? None of my shellfish are the delicate type, I have a 48" 260 watt PC lighting by the way.
You have no idea how dumb i feel right about now. All that work for the last 3 weeks on that little tank lol.. lol.. And it was all wrong. Anyway thank you all very much, and I realize that my tangs need a bigger tank, I didnt know that at the time of purchase, because like a dummy I researched AFTER I bought him... (I have to go to Palmdale CA to buy fish because I live in a town with no marine store)
And I really wanted Mh lighting, but I cant seem to find one that is affordable and practical. Most are huge and bulky, with reflectors that are Ginormous. Any thoughts?
Time to go clean out a tiny sw useless tank... Thank you all!! Tanya

[The Floodinator]

Myrddrall, you're right. I went back and checked my source and 1.016-1.019 is not recommended as low enough to kill Ich. 1.009 is given. I guess I added the extra .010 by accident.
I can say though that I have never had an Ich outbreak since QTing new fish at 1.019. But going forward the S.G. will be dropped closer to 1.009.
Thanks for the correction!

[Swanwillow]

I found that I like MH pendants the best-actually, I LOVED mine when I had it. I think you can find them at hellolights..

I agree with the others, too much of a bioload in too small of a tank.

[Swanwillow]

FWIW, maybe you can trade your PBT with a dwarf angel, and it would be a lot better. the PBT is getting ich cause its in such a small tank-its getting stressed even though its in a 'big' tank. They really do need 125 gallon tanks, even as babies.

[Duff Man]

I'm new to QTing, but I don't think that the salinity should be brought down to 1.009 unless you have an actual ich outbreak. The main purpose of a QT tank is to quarantine the fish from the fish in the DT. This allows observation of the fish's feeding habits and allows the fish to "mellow out" after all the stress from being shipped and brought into a new environment. Lowering salinity and medicating adds stress to the already stressed out fish. Only after the fish shows ich, the salinity is brought down and the tank goes from a QT tank to a hospital tank.