Setting up a Quarintine Tank

[Soujirou]

I've read many articles OL, spoke w/ many reefers and searched the forums here on the subject, but I still have some questions concerning QT. I've heard/read far more positive remarks concerning QT vs. going without it and my final conclusion is that I'd definitely want to get one.

I'm thinking of getting a 10 gallon tank, a 50w Ebo-Jager heater, LCD stick-on thermometer, perhaps a MJ-600 PH for circulation, ideally an included hood with very modest flourescent lighting and something for filtration. Also some varying sizes of PVC tubing to offer some shelter. I heard/read that I don't want any substrate unless I'm QT'ing wrasses as they often like to burrow themselves in the sand at night. I've also heard/read that I don't need or want LR.

What I want to know is 1) what do I need exactly and 2) even without any LS/LR, I still need to "cycle" my QT? If I need to cycle my QT, so be it. I'd much rather do it the right way the first time around. Any suggestions, as always, would be most appreciated.

-Nick

[der_wille_zur_macht]

1) Your list sounds appropriate.

2) You'll need to "cycle" it, but only as far as establishing bacterial growth on the filtration you use. If you use a hang-on filter, you could toss it's cartridges in your main tank's sump for a week to break them in. QT's should have very short term, light bioloads, so there's no need to establish a powerful biological base in them. You'd probably be totally fine with no cycle at all if you did modest water changes on a very regular schedule.

[Shoestring Reefer]

1) Get use an ammonia badge, and recommend one. It's an easy way to check ammonia levels often. I don't know about MJ600s, but IME a powerhead can heat up a 10-gal tank pretty fast. Just keep an eye on the temp. I use a cheap, air stone-driven corner filter in my QT. I went that way because it's cheap and doesn't add any heat.

2) I'd have a cycled QT tank set up to avoid any ammonia spikes, etc. If you are going to seed the bio filter in the display tank/sump, still have the tank set up ahead of time, to make sure the heater is set properly.

Depending on the problems you encounter, some of the medications you end up using may be antibiotics, and some of them wipe out the bacteria in your biological filtration. You may have to rely on water changes (and maby even some ammonia absorber) for water quality control. You'll end up doing small water changes when you siphon out food and pooh, too.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If you do season your filtration in your main tank before using it in the QT, DON'T put it back in the main tank afterwards!

Might be obvious, but just wanted to reinforce the point.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
If you do season your filtration in your main tank before using it in the QT, DON'T put it back in the main tank afterwards!

Might be obvious, but just wanted to reinforce the point.

Why not? If the fish (or whatever you are quarantining) is safe to add to the display, so is the quarantine filter.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If you've used medications in the QT, the filter will probably be riddled with them.

It's also a potential place for parasites to hang out.

[Steven Pro]

I guess medications could be a potential issue, but I generally avoid their use anyhow in favor or other treatments options(hyposalinity, freshwater dips, daily water changes, tank transfer, etc.). But, if the fish is parasite-free, so is the filter.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Originally posted by StevenPro
tank transfer

Is this moving the fish to another QT tank after the parasites leave the host, so the host won't be there when the parasites want to return? I've wanted to look into this, but I haven't found any info.

[Steven Pro]

It is actually moving the fish between two quarantine tanks and then draining and drying the tanks between each move. Terry Bartelme has a nice little explanation about halfway down here
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...um_fish_3.html

[lee_d_m]

Apologies for hijacking the thread, I am just reaching the end of quarantine my Bangaii Cardinal, and am looking to get a Royal gramma next, as I have not used any meds in my QT, is it ok to add the Royal Gramma to my QT (once the BC has moved to my display) using the same water/filter as is currently in use in my QT, or should I wash everything out and start again.

Thanks

[Steven Pro]

As long as you are positive the Banggai was/is completely healthy, there should be no risk to the new Royal Gramma.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Thank for the link, Steve. I had a feeling that was possible. A 12-day QT sounds worth the trouble, as long as the fish can handle it.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by Shoestring Reefer
Thank for the link, Steve. I had a feeling that was possible. A 12-day QT sounds worth the trouble, as long as the fish can handle it.

I just wanted to point out one thing. It is actually a 12 day treatment protocol. The fish should then remain in QT for an additional month just to be sure it is in perfect health.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Ok, I get it now. I readThis Article as well as the one you linked to. Basically, as you said, this is an ich treatment and not a short-duration QT shortcut.

I did a search for "transfer" and "method" in the disease forum and read every thread. I saw nothing about keeping the fish in QT for 4 weeks of observation after teh transfer method. I DID read that the display tank should be kept free of fish for 4 weeks after the transfer method is finished IF the infected fish came from the display tank.

What are we QTing for that would require 6 weeks for QT but would not be stopped by the transfer method, particularly hypo-transfer? Maby internal parasites, but IMO stringy poop or eating problems should be observed by day 12. You seem to be a pro at this compared to me, so hopefully you can clue me in.

[pilot_bell777]

Just what I did......I got some base rock (not LR) and added it to my main tank and left it there a week or so. Added it to the QT tank and then took water from my main tank (water change) and added it to the QT tank, let it sit for a day or two and then did a water change on the QT tank. Added the fish and all was good.

You want your QT tank to be as close to your display tank as possible.

Equipment: Small heater, lights, base rock, power head, and if you use a hand on filter, don't use the floss/bio media. It will raise the nitrates in the QT tank way too fast because of the small amout of water. Good for gas exchagne though.

[Steven Pro]

Shoestring Reefer,

I draw a distrinction between the quarantine period and treatment. For instance, you have a fish that has been treated using the transfer or even hypo-transfer method and has been completely cure of the initial disease (in most instances Cryptocaryon). But, a subsequent quarantine period is also beneficial. First off, it allows you to be sure the treatment was effective. Perhaps you misdiagnosed the original ailment. Maybe you were not diligent enough in watching for cross-contamination of the two QT tanks. Who knows? The only way to be sure the fish is healthy is for you to continue to observe it closely.

Secondly, this fish has just suffered through a series of traumas. Importation is rough enough. Add to that the treatment protocol and it is likely that this fish could easily pick up a secondary bacterial infection. All the handling, netting, etc. of capture, transport, and treatment can damage the fish's protective mucus covering, scales, or fins. Any of these can lead to a secondary infection.

Third, during all of this (importation, making its way through the chain of custody, your treatments), do you imagine that this fish has gotten much to eat? It could have been weeks since it has gotten a good meal. The additional quarantine period gives the animal time to put weight back on in a competition free environment. Throwing a recently recovered, but thin and stressed individual into your display tank where it is going to be immediately attacked and bullied by the existing residents is not a good way to ensure a stocking success. If or the other hand, you allow that individual time to eat, get used to you and the foods you use, fill in and grow, and generally recover to top physical condition, then the chances of a successful introduction have to go up remarkably.

[Soujirou]

I appreciate the replies. To be a little more clear, I only have the Remora protein skimmer for filtration outside of the LR/LS for my display tank. The 10 gallon QT I'm looking at is a simple 10 gallon tank w/ modest flourescent tube lighting and a PH filtration system which would use black carbon and clear white filter sheets for filtration.

Could I drop a piece of dead shrimp into the tank to help start the bacterial filtration process and if so, how long would this take given that I'd be putting a fish no larger than 3" into the QT? Also, when replacing the carbon and clear filter sheets, will this remove most of the good bacteria that I'm aiming for? Should I rotate switching these sheets every other week to keep some bacterial colonies there or will there be enough in the water?

I'll be sure to do daily water changes, but want to make sure that any ammonia spikes will convert to nitrite then nitrate through this natural filtration.

-Nick

[Steven Pro]

I appreciate the replies. To be a little more clear, I only have the Remora protein skimmer for filtration outside of the LR/LS for my display tank. The 10 gallon QT I'm looking at is a simple 10 gallon tank w/ modest flourescent tube lighting and a PH filtration system which would use black carbon and clear white filter sheets for filtration.

I am a big fan of air-driven sponge filters for biological filtration in quarantine tanks. They are cheap, readily available, and effective.

Could I drop a piece of dead shrimp into the tank to help start the bacterial filtration process and if so, how long would this take given that I'd be putting a fish no larger than 3" into the QT? Also, when replacing the carbon and clear filter sheets, will this remove most of the good bacteria that I'm aiming for? Should I rotate switching these sheets every other week to keep some bacterial colonies there or will there be enough in the water?

The dead shrimp will work as a source of ammonia for cycling the filter. A little less smelly would be pure ammonia that you can buy bottled at the grocery store. Try searching for "fishless cycling bottled ammonia" for the details.

[Steven Pro]

You may also want to see if you can locate some of Marineland's Bio-Spira bacteria in a bottle product. I have yet to use it, but I have heard great things from people I know and trust who have used it.

[Soujirou]

Thanks for the reply. I'm currently at work and checked out a few DIY projects for sponge filters. Please Click Here to view this DIY sponge filter article. It seems very simple and effective. What are your thoughts on this? One other thing... even though I seriously doubt this, will I have to restart the cycling procedure when I change the sponge filter or will enough of the bacterial colony be in the water ready for a new filter?

-Nick

[Steven Pro]

Thanks for the reply. I'm currently at work and checked out a few DIY projects for sponge filters. Please Click Here to view this DIY sponge filter article. It seems very simple and effective. What are your thoughts on this?

That DIY filter looks ok.

One other thing... even though I seriously doubt this, will I have to restart the cycling procedure when I change the sponge filter or will enough of the bacterial colony be in the water ready for a new filter?

You will have to give any new filter media time for the bacteria to colonize the filter. This could take a couple of weeks.

[Soujirou]

I'm thinking of making sponge filter blocks with dimensions of 4"x4"x4" roughly. Once the good bacteria has been established and the tank has cycled, about how long could I wait before replacing this filter? Also, if I were to use this Bio-Spira product to speed up the cylcing period, about how long would the 10 gallon QT take to cycle?

-Nick

[Steven Pro]

I'm thinking of making sponge filter blocks with dimensions of 4"x4"x4" roughly. Once the good bacteria has been established and the tank has cycled, about how long could I wait before replacing this filter?

Sponge filters can last years before needing replaced.

Also, if I were to use this Bio-Spira product to speed up the cylcing period, about how long would the 10 gallon QT take to cycle?

Allegedly, you are ready to go in days. I would feel more comfortable waiting and watching (monitoring ammonia and nitrite levels with your test kits) for a week, though.

[Soujirou]

Years... Talk about getting your money's worth especially since this is a DIY project. =) I take it water tests that are off would be the usual indication that the sponge filter needs replacing, not something that'd be obvious by observing?

Concerning the foam block, I was only able to get a product called "Poly-fil, Nu-Foam" at Walmart in their crafts section. It's made of polyester and is generally used for cushioning and comes in large squares 2" thick, but it looks nearly identical, weave and all, to the clear filter sheets that you buy alongside carbon filter sheets. I take it this will be fine to act as my sponge filter

I'd personally like to wait at least a week or two myself even with the Bio-Spira and constantly check my water chemistry during thatt time to make sure as you suggested. Patience is a virtue, as they say, and I'm a firm believer in that in many cases.

-Nick

[Steven Pro]

Years... Talk about getting your money's worth especially since this is a DIY project. =) I take it water tests that are off would be the usual indication that the sponge filter needs replacing, not something that'd be obvious by observing?

A sponge filter will need to be replaced when it starts to fall apart or when the fish have nibbled on it too much that there is no longer enough material to support a good bacteria colony. The testing I was referring to is for the presence of ammonia and nitrite and whether or not the sponge filter had been seeded with enough bacteria to work properly/it was cycled.

Concerning the foam block, I was only able to get a product called "Poly-fil, Nu-Foam" at Walmart in their crafts section. It's made of polyester and is generally used for cushioning and comes in large squares 2" thick, but it looks nearly identical, weave and all, to the clear filter sheets that you buy alongside carbon filter sheets. I take it this will be fine to act as my sponge filter

I really don't know anything about that product to advise you. Sorry. I will tell you that I use these Hydro sponge filters,
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products.../Itemdy00.aspx