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  #1  
Old 12/08/2007, 11:40 PM
orbit orbit is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 179
test kit / calcium question

hi

this may sound like a retarted question but i was wondering, does the time u test the water change the results of the test kit?

heres wut happened, i tested my water for calcium, i tested it at 11:20 pm

Cal - 300 ppm
alk - 9.1 dkh
ph - 8.4
no2, n03, ammonia - all zero

i use to test in the morning, the last time i tested for calcium was like a week ago and it was at 10 am

Cal - 390
Alk - 8,4
ph 8.2
no2, n03, ammonia - all zero

at first i though i tested calcium wrong so i did a second test, and got the same results

i thinking of retesting the water level tomorrow morning and see if there is a change

anyways, if my level is low , what additives should i add to raise the calcium level
will any one of these 3 work
E.S.V. B-Ionic

lKent Marine Liquid Calcium

Turbo-Calcium

i just did a 3 gallon water change today, i use reef crystal salt, which is suppose to add calcium, so it doesnt make sense that my calcium level dropped,

right now in the tank i have
1 torch,
1 xenia,
1 green mushroom,
1 zoa,
1 blastomussa,
1 sinularia,
1 sun cora

Thanks
Orbit

Last edited by orbit; 12/08/2007 at 11:47 PM.
  #2  
Old 12/09/2007, 12:03 AM
bertoni bertoni is offline
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Location: Foster City, CA, USA
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The pH will vary throughout the day, but alkalinity and calcium will only drop, unless something's dosed.

The Liquid Calcium and the Turbo Calcium are the cheapest of the supplements listed. The calcium part of B-Ionic is fine to use, but tends to be more expensive.
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  #3  
Old 12/09/2007, 12:11 AM
orbit orbit is offline
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Posts: 179
as of right now im not dosing anything

i am adding this to my water everytime i do a water chage
Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH

but that only affect ph so it doesnt affect calcium right?and i just using a tiny bit not even one teaspoon

so which of the two kent product do u think is better?

Thanks
  #4  
Old 12/09/2007, 01:37 AM
funman1 funman1 is offline
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Location: Citrus Heights, CA
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Anything that changes PH WILL effect Alk, CA, and possibly MG
Why are you adding buffer?
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  #5  
Old 12/09/2007, 01:44 AM
D&KSac D&KSac is offline
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Location: So. Sacramento/ Elk Grove area
Posts: 233
you should add calcium and sodium bicarbonate on opposite days. To keep the CA and KH stable. As your CA goes up your KH will go down and vice versa.
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  #6  
Old 12/09/2007, 02:08 AM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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Location: Naperville IL
Posts: 12,458
Quote:
Originally posted by orbit
as of right now im not dosing anything

i am adding this to my water everytime i do a water chage
Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH

but that only affect ph so it doesnt affect calcium right?and i just using a tiny bit not even one teaspoon

so which of the two kent product do u think is better?

Thanks
PH buffers are in reality alkalinity buffers so you are increasing the alkalnity which under ceirtan circumstances (high Alkalinity and high PH) will make calcium drop.
Reef Crystals is already high in alkalinity, if you add the alkalinity buffer calcium will precipitate lowering it.
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  #7  
Old 12/09/2007, 04:13 AM
bertoni bertoni is offline
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I don't see any reason to dose alkalinity and calcium on alternate days. I dosed B-Ionic for years at the same time in the morning.

Adding alkalinity isn't going to affect calcium or magnesium measurably unless the parameters are out of bounds enough to cause significant precipitation, as jdieck stated. The same is true for dosing calcium.
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  #8  
Old 12/09/2007, 08:20 AM
rbursek rbursek is offline
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If my CA levels are fine but ALK is low what can I add to raise ALK? Baking soda?
Bob
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  #9  
Old 12/09/2007, 09:09 AM
orbit orbit is offline
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so basically if i get turbo calcium, since they are both power can i dose the water change at the same time to balance both alk and cal?

let me get this straight

so when ph and alk goes up, cal will tend to down
meaning when cal goes up alk goes down as well right?
  #10  
Old 12/09/2007, 09:12 AM
orbit orbit is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdieck
PH buffers are in reality alkalinity buffers so you are increasing the alkalnity which under ceirtan circumstances (high Alkalinity and high PH) will make calcium drop.
Reef Crystals is already high in alkalinity, if you add the alkalinity buffer calcium will precipitate lowering it.
i bought that because my ph was alitte low when i first started, it was at 8.0 and my LFS recommend this to me and told me to just add alittle bit into the water every week or so

or course i add it the salted water and not the main display tank
  #11  
Old 12/09/2007, 12:29 PM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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Location: Naperville IL
Posts: 12,458
Quote:
Originally posted by orbit
i bought that because my ph was alitte low when i first started, it was at 8.0 and my LFS recommend this to me and told me to just add alittle bit into the water every week or so

or course i add it the salted water and not the main display tank
Careful when a recomendation is only a half truth.
Your PH can be low for basically two reasons:
a) Excess Carbon Dioxide in the water due to high concentration in the indor air or
b) low alkalinity.

A PH buffer (again alkalinity buffer) can only help when your alkalinity is low (case b above) something you should regularly test for and do not use the buffer is the alkalinity is already at or close to the high level of the recommended range which is 11 dKh (200 ppm or 4 meq/lt)
If your alkalinity is already at that level then CO2 is most likely your problem, to solve you need to find a way to get some fresh air near your system, opening windows, bring a hose from the outside to feed air to your skimmer etc.)

Now regarding the relationship of calcium, alkalinity and magnesium.
When alkalinity and calcium are high and the PH increases, the alkalinity and calcium tend to combine (precipitate) forming calcium carbonate then lowering both levels.
Magnesium helps prevent this to happen up to certain level so you need to try to maintain your magnesium at the recommended 1300 ppm.

People say that adding alkalinity drops calcium and viceversa but again that is a half truth. That effect does not happen when the levels are within acceptable ranges, say your calcium is at 420 ppm and you increase your alkalinity from 2.5 to 3.5 meq/lt, the calcium will not drop.
When either the calcium or alkalinity are beyond the recommended range say your calcium is at 550 or 600 ppm then increasing your alkalinity from 3 to 4 meq/lt will precipitate some of the calcium and some of the added alkalinity if your PH is relatively high (8.3 to 8.5)
I personally try to adjust one by adding the other, artificially creating a precipitation unless done carefully and with lots of monitoring can create a chain reaction precipitation were the initial precipitation avalanches forming more and more creating the "snow" effect which may suddenly decrease both levels and the PH to a point were it can shock your system.
For additional information there are excellent articles on calcium, alkalinity, PH and magnesium in the sticky at the begining of the chemistry forum.
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