Banggai Cardinals

[PADODD]

I would like to have a go at breeding some Banggai cardinals, so on Tuesday I bought what I thought was a true pair. I have read that the males second dorsal fin is alot longer than the females.

On putting them in their new tank they settled in fine and started feeding straight away. However, yesterday for some reason the fish with the shorter dorsal fin, which I assumed to be a female, has started bullying the other fish. So much so that the one with the longer dorsal fin now hides behind the rocks all the time too frightened to come out.

I was therefore wondering whether anyone who keeps/breeds Banggai's could have a look at these pictures and tell me whether I have a true pair or have I ended up with two of the same sex ie; two males.

[dark_stranger]

i recognise this thread.

[FMarini]

well not going to burst your bubble....
so hope you don't mind if i "cut-n'paste" from another thread

It is near impossible, if not impossible to sex these fish, regardless of what I published back in 1997, and 1999, even Vagelli (1999) agrees. No jawlines or 2nd dorsal differences.

That said, it is still possible to generate breeding pairs without knowing the sexes of the fish. finding compatible mates takes time and careful attention, and several approaches have been tried with varying degrees of success are described below.

#1- A group of sub-adults (3 to 5 individuals) are placed together in a communal tank where they develop pair bonds as they mature. Once pairs are formed and move away from the group, the “outsider fish are removed. It is important to note that any BC seen with dark coloration and cowering in a corner must be removed immediately or it will soon die.

#2- Place a fish of unknown sex with a known “sexed” fish. Back in1995 I had a male Banggai who was 100% accurate in sexing. When a new BC was placed in his tank, he did one of two things. A) Try to beat the snot of out him (new fish=male) or mate with it (new fish=female). This technique often requires a bit of time as initially the established known sexed fish will display and present to either sex, but within 30mins the display are over and the fighting or mating starts. What I found useful was a small breeding net with thin mesh webbing, this way the established fish can view the new fish, but not get access to the new fish.

#3- purchase two BC’s from an LFS that has a tank full of multiple BC’s and choose the two fish that’s are “hanging out” together, frequently away from the other fish.

My personal choice when obtaining pairs or broodstock is to obtain many young (small) BC and allow them to separate and pair up as they mature. Frequently multiple pairs of BC can be obtained this way.

Freebie from an upcomming article
Marini 1996- http://www.breedersregistry.org/Art...rini/marini.htm
Marini 1999- http://www.reefs.org/library/talklo...ini_020799.html
Vagelli, A. 1999. The reproductive biology and early ontogeny of the mouthbrooding Banggai cardinalfish Pterapogon kauderni (Perciformes, Apogonidae). Env. Biol. of Fish. 56:79-92.

[PADODD]

Many thanks for your advice Frank. I have since read your articles on Banggai's and found them very informative.

Its beginning to look as though I have two males as the shorter finned fish is really hammering the other one. So I have decided to separate them and see about obtaining a couple more. Hopefully I will eventually get a true pair that I can try and breed from.

Cheers

Phil.

[Steveabg]

If this helps to further complicate things, we do have a breeding pair of Banggais, and they seem to go through spells where they don't like each other much. Domestic unrest, if you will. I don't know that they're necessarily "hammering" each other, but they will chase each other. It usually lasts a few days, they make up, and go back to making babies.

[PADODD]

LOL, yes I know what you mean. I've experienced the same with my pair of clowns. They go through a phase where the female just can't stand the sight of the male and gives him hell, then they suddenly make up and alls well again.

I suppose all couples have they're disagreements at times.