Prepared Kent SW has a Alk of 0.6 dkh. Is this normal for SW mixes? - Page 3

Randy Holmes-Farley · #51 02/27/2006, 03:27 PM

With all due respect to you and maybe a thank you for trying, but I have no need to PM ANYONE from Kent Marine. If they wanted to respond to this situation, what could they possibly say.

I don't know, but it is often fair to hear both sides of the story.

umpire · #52 02/27/2006, 04:37 PM

Hi again Randy,

And yes it is good to get both sides of any story, event, or choices that we have in the reef keeping hobby or anything for that matter. The problem I personally have here is that I don't think Kent Marine or ANY company that handles a situation like what they have done, deserves much or should I say any of my time. Let Kent Marine say what they have to say right out here in front of everyone. Not in a PM, hush hush, behind the scenes message. Maybe I am being to hard core here but I have worked very hard for over 10 years to build my store and a relationship with my customers. My customers put a lot of faith and trust in me and I take that very personally and I am very proud of that. I put a lot of faith in Kent Marine. They broke that bond. How do you unbreak a glass? Not trying to be stubborn, just trying to do and say what I think is right. And it problably will not matter what Kent Marine may or may not say to anyone. My mind is pretty well made up on this one. I will support companies I am comfortable with, and right now, Kent Marine is NOT one of them. I can only hope that the buying public will give Kent Marine all of the business and support that each person believes they truely deserve.

Sincerly,

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #53 02/27/2006, 07:54 PM

Kent responded to my email quickly about the problem and have requested my phone number so we can talk about it. I expect to hear from them sometime tomorrow.

jmicky41 · #54 02/27/2006, 07:56 PM

Same here, UPS just picked up a sample from my door step today.

aquaconnect · #55 02/27/2006, 08:33 PM

Nice to hear. I refused to send them a sample, stating that I've been in the hobby for long enough to know how to test salt, plus I and Kent already know what the problem is anyway. Like Randy said, it's bicarbonate. But thanks for the posts. How did they say they would comp you, or did they? And did you talk with Chris, or John?

sherm71tank · #56 02/27/2006, 10:31 PM

John was who got back to me from Kent.

jjmg · #57 02/27/2006, 11:09 PM

Umpire, I'm sure your customers were glad that you came forward when you realized a problem existed. Sounds like a rare lfs.

umpire · #58 02/28/2006, 11:57 AM

The fact that Kent Marine might be responding quickly to peoples emails now, instead of at the beginning is that they got caught trying to sweep a problem under the rug.(IMHO) And for all the hobbiest that are getting taken care of now, that's good. And once again we come back to this VERY BASIC ISSUE. Integrity.

I personally told someone at Kent Marine they had a problem with their salt and this same person one week later emails AQUACONNECT saying he is not aware of any problems. What would you be thinking about Kent Marine if they had done this to you? What if this were your prized tank? What if this involved all or your TIME AND MONEY invested to make your tank your pride and joy? What would you think about Kent Marine then?

What ever Kent Marine does to try and fix this now, is IMO way to little way to late!

Sincerely,

James Tucker

umpire · #59 02/28/2006, 01:10 PM

And a thank you to jjmg for the kind words.

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #60 02/28/2006, 07:21 PM

I have not received a call from them yet. I did get an email from Drs Foster Smith stating
"Thank you for contacting Drs. Foster & Smith. We do apologize you are unsatisfied with the Kent Salt Mix you are using. Unfortunately there has not been any type of change made by the manufacture. We do show that a prepaid label is being sent to you for the return of this product and the exchange will be made upon receiving this."
So maybe they still are not admitting anything.

Atomahawk · #61 03/01/2006, 11:18 PM

Umpire,

I have to give you credit for sticking to your guns on this one. I worked for 12 years for one of the majors in the aquarium industry (sales manager) and I can tell you for a fact that a serious company would not have a sales rep or someone in R&D or a manager give 2 completely different responses to the same problem, depending on who they are talking to. In this case a consumer and a store owner.

I remember an incident were a test kit was in question (odd reading) and I recieved a few calls from a couple of local stores stating this. I called R&D and asked them to verify the batch ( they keep samples of each batch for the duration of the shelf life) and asked them to test it. I also picked up the questionable tests and samples of water they were testing and sent them in. Turns out the tests were fine and the water chemistry had changed in the cities water chemistry (verified with city water management). The moral of the story is if you represent a manufacturer don't try and bull your way through issue's, and don't have different stories depending on who your talking to, it will bite you in the backside.

I learned a long time ago that in our hobby good stores have a strong relationship of trust with their customers so when issues do arise they do a lot of talking. I know this for a fact as I managed a big fish departement prior to working for a manufacturer.

Keep serving your customers best interest and you'll be in business for a long time.

Best regards

sherm71tank · #62 03/01/2006, 11:30 PM

My response:
Thanks for the quick response and great customer service as I have come to expect from your company. I will however adamantly disagree with the statement that no change had been made to the salt. I'm sure it was not done deliberately but there is something very wrong with the Kent salt I received. There are also packaging differences as well, bags inside the bucket that were never there before and color changes and logos are a bit different on the batch that caused my problems. I've been using Kent salt for years and totally happy with it until now.

Their response received today:
Thank you for your email. We are currently working with Kent Marine to improve the quality of each bucket of sea salt mix that is shipped to our customers. In mixing large quantities of the sea salts, some of the components may not get thoroughly mixed through all of the salt and therefore may contain less of some of the components than others. As this is a concern to us and the manufacture alike, your concern has been forwarded to our Purchasing Department. In order to check further into this we are asking that you return the product to us so we may have the salt analyzed by the manufacture for quality assurance. It is also common for the manufacture to contact the consumer for more information on the product that was received. If you do not want the manufacture to contact you, please contact us so we do not offer your information to the manufacture for a follow up phone call.
Again we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. If we can be of any additional assistance, please feel free to contact our Technical Support Department at 1-800-334-3699 or via email at TechSupport@drsfostersmith.com and we will be happy to answer any question(s) you may have.

I have also received another email from Kent ( they werent able to reach me today ) and I will be talking with them tomorrow. I am wondering what type of explanation to expect from them.

umpire · #63 03/02/2006, 11:59 AM

I hope you will not be bored with me returning to my soapbox. But as long as people at Kent Marine and now Dr's Foster's and Smith make statements that would lead you to believe that we as aquarist do not have any idea about what is and or has gone on with Kent's blunder with this bad salt.

Dr's Fosters and Smith in there comment about the salt said they were sorry for any "inconvience". I am sitting here getting so mad at that statement that I can barely type this message.

Inconvient is when you go to the lfs and they are out of a bucket of salt and you have to go back when their drygoods come in. Inconvient is when you call Dr's Foster's and Smith and you oder something and it gets backordered, that's inconvient!

When you have to pull 10 rose anemones out of a tank to keep them from dying, that's more than an inconvience. When you can't get your zoanthiads to open up after the problems with using this bad salt. When you loose acans, that is more than just "inconvient". When you fight with your tank for nearly 2 months to figure out what is the problem and you can't get your calcium and alkilinity under control, and you find out finally that it is the salt. Salt from Kent Marine that has a Ca reading of 470 and a DKH of 1.9 That is a whole lot more than just inconvient. When the company is told they have a problem with the salt and that same person emails a customer and tells them that they are not aware of any problem. That is a whole lot more than inconvient.

Now then, you have one company, Dr's Foster's and Smith making such statements as "inconvient" about Kent's salt. Does that offend any of you or is it JUST ME? I wonder if AQUACONNECT will want to pick up the phone and call Dr's Foster's and Smith and order something from a company that makes such statements on behalf of a company that handled this situation as it did. The result of Kent's salt problem has cost Aquaconnect a lot of money. (I am keeping an unopened bucket just in case some one needs to check it in the future.) And they refer to it as INCONVIENT. I can only hope that my true amount of disgust and anger that I have with Kent Marine over this can be measured in these writings.

I think I realize that Kent will NEVER admit to any wrong doing here. I supose that would cause huge leagal problems. I read on a Canadian reef thread that someone received a check from Instant Ocean for $1800 for their salt problem they had a few years back. So they have no choice here but to deny everything. Act as though nothing happened. Any other reaction could cause huge financial problems.

Maybe the way for Kent to get this to go away is to not make any more stupid comments about we did not know about this. And for compaines such as Dr's Foster's and Smith to give their customers more respect than we are sorry for any "INCONVIENCE".

Sincerely,

James Tucker

saltygeek · #64 03/02/2006, 01:53 PM

I dont really know what you would want them to say?? I think form the sounds of it they (drs foster and smith) seemed to have taken care of their part by refering the problem to the manufacturer. How is it their fault that the salt had an issue? Its not, its the manufacturer. All they would need to do is refund the money and inform the company of the issue.

thedogofwar · #65 03/02/2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jjmg
Umpire, I'm sure your customers were glad that you came forward when you realized a problem existed. Sounds like a rare lfs.

James (AKA Umpire) owns and operates one of the finest stores I've ever had the privilege of shopping in. I know that the majority of, if not all of his customers were alerted to a problem with the Kent salt weeks ago. I can also tell you that James was in fact very supportive of the Kent salt, he took from his own pocket to show his support on more than one occassion. Knowing James and his previous support of Kent, I have no choice but to trust his judgement. I know that his customers appreciate his efforts in the hobby and this matter, however I'm also sure that none are surprised by it either.

inlandreef · #66 03/02/2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

James (AKA Umpire) owns and operates one of the finest stores I've ever had the privilege of shopping in.

Thedogofwar is right. When I moved to AR from CA I didnt know what to expect from this LFS. This is the best LFS I have ever seen. James has not held back any info unlike the LFS I went ot in CA. I have no reason not to believe of the problem with Kent.

saltygeek · #67 03/02/2006, 03:22 PM

If you guys are referencing for me, I never said anything wrong about the guy, never doubted him as a person. Just saying that just because he knows that there are problems with the salt doesn't mean that foster and smith had heard of it too. Thats all I was saying. They very well could know, but nothing that has been posted would state that they (foster and smith) knew something was wrong with it other than sherm71tank telling them and they inturn made the manufacturer aware of it...

inlandreef · #68 03/02/2006, 03:32 PM

My above post has nothing to do with what you have said. Just backing up James.

umpire · #69 03/02/2006, 04:26 PM

And for SALTYGEEK, maybe I did not read it correctly about the "inconvience". I can only assume that they took care of their customer. I hope they did. But I also felt like there where some comments made that I personally will not buy into. I just want people to stop and think about this situation.

For example,
Dr's. Fosters and Smith if I remember right said their was no change to the salt mix. Contact ACUACONNECT and see if there was a change to the salt. I think this whole thread started because there was a change to the salt. INTENDED OR NOT! Or at least someone wanted to know if .06 alk was normal for a salt mix.

Then there is the statement about mixing salt in large quantities and not everthing getting mixed properly. Somehow that statement seemed hollow and shallow to me also. Sounded like Dr's Foster and Smith trying to make it sound OK that Kent screwed up the salt.

Saltygeek, if you are a customer of Dr's Foster's and Smith maybe you can contact them and let them know that their is a problem with Kent salt. I would think they would be very thankfull.

Sincerely,

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #70 03/02/2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Then there is the statement about mixing salt in large quantities and not everthing getting mixed properly. Somehow that statement seemed hollow and shallow to me also. Sounded like Dr's Foster and Smith trying to make it sound OK that Kent screwed up the salt.

I don't think Drs Foster Smith is trying to cover for Kent. They told me they are sending call tags to pick up the salt, refunding my money,offering to ship whatever salt I choose with no shipping fees, and are sending it back to Kent so they can do an analysis on it. I think that Drs Foster Smith are handling it the best way they can. On the other hand I am very disappointed with Kent. I still received no phone call from them today as I was told. I won't be using their salt or products again.

Believe me when I see my corals puking their insides out like they did it upset me as well.

umpire · #71 03/03/2006, 09:21 AM

I am glad Dr's Foster's and Smith are taking care of you sherm71tank. My problem is with Kent also. Maybe after they realize how bad Kent has screwed up they may even decide to distance themselves from a company that conducts business the way that Kent has.

Sad they have to send the salt back to Kent for analysis. Talk about letting the fox guard the henhouse. Consumers will never know how bad this problem really is or was. I have ZERO faith that they will test let alone announce any product test results.

I do have an idea though. Maybe if someone has a bucket (unopened) in question contact me and I will buy that bucket back and pay for all shipping. The Houston reef club is doing a blind salt study, maybe they could get a bucket of Kent in there as well. They may have Kent in the study but I think that is before thier problem began. Anyway, does anyone have an unopened Kent bucket with yellow lettering?

Sincerely,

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #72 03/03/2006, 10:03 AM

I have two of them. One is open and one is not open. They were both purchased at the same time. The open bucket is the one that I did the last water change with and is knwon to have problems. I would like to see an independent test also.

umpire · #73 03/03/2006, 12:42 PM

Sherm71tank,

I have sent you an email. I want your unopened Kent 200 gallon bucket. Seal is intact and yellow lettering correct. Purchased between December 26, 2005 and February 10, 2006. Let me know. The first pallet of 24 with the now known problem came in on December 20, 2005. A second pallet of 24 Kent 200 gallon buckets with the now know problem came in on January 19, 2006.

Sincerely,

James Tucker

sherm71tank · #74 03/03/2006, 12:53 PM

I purchased the salt on Dec. 12th.

sherm71tank · #75 03/03/2006, 04:29 PM

Just a quick update. I was called by John at Kent Marine today. He acknowledged there was some problem with their salt but stated they have taken steps to make sure it could never happen again. I expressed my dissappointment and told him I had been using Kent for years. I am sending him a sample from the bucket that caused my problems.