Starting a reef tank for a second time, help me not to fail again!

[dudleystinks]

Hi guys i have been in the hobby for about 5 years.

5 years ago i set up my first and only marine tank and i still have it. The inhabitants are still going strong but the tank looks awfull You cant actually see in with the amount of slime algae in there

The other week I decided enough was enough im going to start a new tank. I went out today and baught one. I have all the kit, pump, heater, protein skimmer, lights, uv steriliser, filter, ro machine etc etc

My first 3 questions in a possible long line of them are about live rock. At the moment i have the tank sitting in the corner, no water just sand.

What i want to know is when to add live rock, is it best to do it before my tank cycles or after?

I also would like to know what to look for in good live rock

And finally will it actually help me keep this slime algae out of my tank

Thanks a lot guys
Dudley

[reeferman00]

put the rock in before adding any livestock so it can cure. this will take a couple of weeks. good live rock will have a lot of growth on it.
plants sponges etc.
do you have any snails or hermits in your other tank.
how much flow or powerheads do you have in your other tank?

[phenom5]

What i want to know is when to add live rock, is it best to do it before my tank cycles or after?

Adding your live rock will begin your cycle. What are you using to cycle your tank now?

I also would like to know what to look for in good live rock

Good shapes, and lighter, more porous live rock.

[dudleystinks]

reeferman00

In my other tank i dont have any snails or crabs but i will do in my new one for sure.

On the other tank i have tried so many differnt things to remove the algae, at one point i had 3 filters on it and 2 power heads but nothing worked for me

The guy at the fish shop today was trying to sell me live rock and i looked at it and all i could think to myself was it looks dead, he was telling me that it took a while for it to look alive, the other stuff in the display tanks was covered in red algae etc so it looked pretty good, he said to me it was for sale but it was more expensive.

phenom5

Im not using anything to cycle the tank yet, with my last tank i used a bottle of that cycling stuff i cant remember the name for it.

[seans tank]

when looking for live rock make sure no aiptashia is growing on rock aiptashia is a small red anenome looking plant.

[zotzer]

Putting some snails in your existing tank would probably do it a world of good! And as for filters...what kind? Any artificial media left in there will eventually produce lots of nitrates...great food for all that algae!

Live rock should be nice and porous. Get it in your tank now and test daily to follow the cycle.

Have fun! Sounds like you are off to a great start, but I wouldn't give up on tank #1 completely just yet either.

Tracy

[dudleystinks]

The new tank is replacing my old one and i dont have room for 2. The plan is to sell of all my old equipment and spend the money on my new tank.

Some more questions

The rock at my lfs is fiji what is the best location for live rock to come from?

im from the uk and i was wondering what is a fare price to pay for live rock per kg?

Finally the guy mentioned some product called "red up" to increase the amount of red algae and decrease the amount of slime algae. Anybody hear of this, is it any good?

[auntynatal]

You're running before you can walk mate, slow down and stop trying to buy chemicals to change things before they even go wrong!

I'm in the uk too and I paid £200 for 20kg, so around a tenner a kilo sounds about right for round here. There is one website that does 20kg for around £150 delivered, but you don't know what you're getting that way. your rock should display as well as the 'pretty' ones at the LFS - in time! Mine is indonesian LR but is absolutely fine. Your algae in the other tank will have been contributed to by having no clean up crew - snails, crabs and other algae grazers - make sure you add them to the new tank.

Set up the tank, fill it with saltwater, put in the liverock, put on the skimmer, filter, powerheads etc and leave it to cycle. It WILL go through various stages of algae growth, but that's a natural occurence and you should let it go through that without trying to solve the problem immediately. Most of the time it clears on its own. Try not to be despondant and ask, read, ask some more, read some more, read, read, read and READ! the more youknow, the better armed you are for unexpected occurences.

[dudleystinks]

Thanks auntynatal, i was just asking because i know that sometimes people at shops twist the truth in order to get you to buy things

Anyway I have my rock in the tank now and its cycling away I have a couple more questions though

1. Do i cycle the tank with the lights on or off?

2. I haven’t kept corals before and I’m looking at mushroom corals as i hear they are a good beginners coral, i would also like to keep an anemone (i have had one of them before) Is there any problems associated with keeping corals and anemones together?

3. I like the idea of including a number of marine algae’s in my tank, i hear they are good at out competing the nasty algae’s i don’t want to get is that true and will they cause me any trouble?

Algae examples below:

1

2

3

4

Cheers guys

[phenom5]

1. Do i cycle the tank with the lights on or off?

During cycles I run my lights, but only for a short period of time, maybe 3 or 4 hours a day. Then after the cycle is complete I slowly ramp up the lighting time to a regular lighting schedule.

2. I haven’t kept corals before and I’m looking at mushroom corals as i hear they are a good beginners coral, i would also like to keep an anemone (i have had one of them before) Is there any problems associated with keeping corals and anemones together?

Mushrooms are good corals to start out with, I would also add zoanthids, and star polyps to that list as good first corals. As far as the anemone goes, the problem is that the anemone may move around, and sting/ kill your corals.

3. I like the idea of including a number of marine algae’s in my tank, i hear they are good at out competing the nasty algae’s i don’t want to get is that true and will they cause me any trouble?

That's true, but I'd look into adding a refugium to house the macro algae, rather than keeping them in the display.

[dudleystinks]

thanks phenom!

Unfortunately i don’t have space of a refugium. Why do you recommend not putting the algae in the display tank? Is it just a personal preference or will it cause trouble? Personally for me from an aesthetics point i think they would look nice in my main tank, i had a planted tropical freshwater aquarium and i would like to try something similar but with coral thrown into the mix...

Thanks for the suggestions on the corals i will look into them. I have read that brain corals are also another beginner coral am i right in thinking so?

As for the anemone i was under the impression they only moved when unhappy or to find a better position. The one i used to have never moved from the position i put it in! This brings me to another question.

If i do decide to get an anemone would it be best to put it in my aquarium before the corals so maybe it could find a position it was happy with and wouldn’t move?

cheers guys

[phenom5]

Unfortunately i don’t have space of a refugium. Why do you recommend not putting the algae in the display tank? Is it just a personal preference or will it cause trouble?

Small patches of macro algae does add to the natural look of a tank, but you could run into problems with the algae completely taking over your tank.

I have read that brain corals are also another beginner coral am i right in thinking so?

Generally speaking, yes. However there are probably around a dozen species of corals that are sold under the common name of "brain coral". Just make sure you know what your getting, and what the specific care requirements are for that species.

If i do decide to get an anemone would it be best to put it in my aquarium before the corals so maybe it could find a position it was happy with and wouldn’t move?

Yeah...but our tanks are dynamic systems that can change over time. Maybe a coral grows a bit, which changes the flow pattern in your tank, and you anemone decides it doesn't like where it's been and moves. But there are plenty of tanks out there that house corals & anemones, so it can be done, and honestly, I don't have a whole lot of experience with them, so you may want to seek out a more experienced opinion. One thing that I do know about anemones, they need a very stable, and established system, so I wouldn't add one for 6 mos- a year (at least I think that's the status quo on adding anemones ). You may want to drop by the Anemones & Clownfish forum to get some help from some of the anemone experts. Lots of good stickies to read over there also.

[Sk8r]

Adding a refugium even to the tank that is all slime algae would probably solve its most obvious problem in a few months.

Re anemones in reef tanks: no. No. no-no. Bad bet.

[dudleystinks]

I think i will try the algae out in my tank and hope i can keep it undercontrol Anyway i would sooner have that go mad then slime algae to be honest.

Phenom I was just wondering if adding anenomes first isnt a good idea then in terms of coral what should i start with and when?

The filter, heater and skimmer are all built into the back of the tank and are internal. Currently the fuilter has carbon, bio balls and ceramic media, all of this came with the tank and i was wondering what should i have in the filter? Are these bad things to have? I have read that ceramic media is bad and i am getting mixed opinions on the carbon. As for bio balls i cant find anything..

I also have some phosphate kent marine phosphate absorber left over from my other tank and was wondering would this be usefull to have in there?

[phenom5]

The filter, heater and skimmer are all built into the back of the tank and are internal. Currently the fuilter has carbon, bio balls and ceramic media, all of this came with the tank and i was wondering what should i have in the filter? Are these bad things to have? I have read that ceramic media is bad and i am getting mixed opinions on the carbon. As for bio balls i cant find anything..

What type of tank is it? I would remove the bio balls & the ceramics. The carbon is fine to use, just make sure that you change it out on a regular basis.

I think i will try the algae out in my tank and hope i can keep it undercontrol Anyway i would sooner have that go mad then slime algae to be honest.

The chambers that hold the bio balls, ceramics, etc would be a great place to house some live rock & your macro algae. I'd really recommend against keeping the algae in the display. I've battled caulerpa in my tank in the past, and it's a major PITA. A side note on caulerpa, I'm not entirely sure about that specific species, but some (maybe all, not sure) species of caulerpa can "go sexual". When this happens, the algae releases all of the nutrients that it's absorbed, and wreaks havoc on your tank.

I also have some phosphate kent marine phosphate absorber left over from my other tank and was wondering would this be usefull to have in there?

IMO a refugium with cheato would be a better way to go. Are you beginning to pick up on a theme here...

I was just wondering if adding anenomes first isnt a good idea then in terms of coral what should i start with and when?

In terms of what...zoanthids, star polyps, mushrooms, softies would be a good place to start. From there you could move on to LPS, and ultimately SPS a ways down the road if that's the direction you wanted to go in. As far as when, once your cycle is complete. Again, I'd rethink the anemone.

[dudleystinks]

The tank is a 55gallon cube, some japenise make called boyu. Apparently is basically a copy of the jbj cubes made by the same people and everything.

I have oredered my cheato and it should be comming today or tommorow Great minds think a like i was thinking about putting it in the chambers at the back. Problem is though the tank light doesnt get to the chambers and i dont think i could fit any type of light above them other than LED's would it grow under LED's?

I have removed the bio balls and ceramics aswell.

Another question i was thinking of adding a power head. My dad seems to think that it will mess with the way the water flows around the tank so that the water will just flow around inside the tank but no new water will get drawn into the chambers at the back. Personaly i cant see a problem, i thinks hes just making it up so he doesnt have to put a new plug on it What do you think?

He keeps interfering with everything everytime i come home from work hes done something to it...