DIY VorTech?

Reeferhead · #1 12/08/2005, 09:40 PM

Anyone concidered how to build one of these new Icecap "style" pumps? It would be cool to have a DIY version figured out before the branded one even comes out.

Hope this doesn't get deleted by "the man"

Donw · #2 12/08/2005, 10:08 PM

Can you picture a magnetic stirrer. You could probably start there and add to it.

Don

EmergencyDpt · #3 12/09/2005, 03:55 AM

wow, that baby is schweeeet.

dhnguyen · #4 12/09/2005, 11:43 AM

Think magnetic stirrer and a propeller.

D.

MicroChip · #5 12/09/2005, 12:44 PM

This is likely to be one of those things that's harder and more expensive to DIY than is worth the trouble. Plus, ETM spent a lot of time and money on R&D stage of this product and has picked a pretty good partner in Icecap to get it to market. I am sure it will be worth the purchase.

Cheers!
MC

LiquidShaneo · #6 12/09/2005, 01:29 PM

I have to agree with MicroChip that DIY'ing this more than likely will be more trouble/hastle than it's worth. It's a pretty sweet design if you ask me and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it come to market. The folks at EcoTech have done their homework and I'm really interested in reading what people have to say about it once they're on the market.

Shane

dhnguyen · #7 12/09/2005, 02:32 PM

I am most curious to see how it will be priced. Especially compared to a Tunze. Would definitely be nice for larger tanks for sure. Too much flow for my puny 55g

D.

speakeraddict · #8 12/09/2005, 02:39 PM

I swear I would DIY a heater if I could find the materials to do so, but this seems like one of those things better left to the pros.

speakeraddict

Sanjay · #9 12/09/2005, 02:40 PM

The pumps are supposed to be fully controllable.. so once the controller is out you can definately adjust it to suit a smaller tank.

Its nice to see some innovation in products.... and of all the products I have seen lately this one definately is innovative.

Plus its nice to see some competition for the Tunze. Its good for the consumers in the long run.

sanjay.

areze · #10 12/09/2005, 02:55 PM

maxijet or mag pump, attach a magnet to the impellor(needs to be balanced, and well secured or something to keep it from touching the glass.

other side is an identical magnet, attached to a propellor.

put some magnets on either side to hold it to the glass.

it wouldnt be as cheap or easy because you have to do the whole magnet thing. wouldnt be too expensive, would probably be very rough though.

tangwang · #11 12/09/2005, 03:20 PM

I'd say that they'll most likely be a little cheaper than the tunzes, since we won't be competing with the Euro exchange rate, and importing factor.....

Matt

Reeferhead · #12 12/09/2005, 05:52 PM

Does anyone know of a manufacture that makes strong compact magnetic stirrers that one might use for this DIY?

pickle311 · #13 12/09/2005, 06:33 PM

Anyone know when these are supposed to hit the market? I'd be very interested in one or two of them if the price is right. Where can I find out more info on them?

AndyL · #14 12/09/2005, 08:28 PM

I'm thinking this wouldn't actually be too bad to DIY...

A simple DC motor (probably from a hobby shop - those RC car motors look promising). I don't think you'd want to use a MJ or similar, no bearings or restraint on the magnet, you wouldn't want your DIY vortech to drill your tank...

Drive 'gears' probably a couple simple plastic gears (hobby shop again) with rare earth magnets would get you there...

Would need to magnet mount, easy enough with some simple acrylic work - and a few rare earth magnets.

Then the 'drive' (or submersed side) could simply be a copy of the maxijet stream mod with mounting flange...

Reeferhead · #15 12/09/2005, 08:43 PM

They're supposed to be out in Spring 06. Check out the Icecap forum there are a couple threads in there about them

Yeah I dont really think this would be to hard to DIY either. I'm waiting to see what kind of price they put on them before I get too invested in trying to built one. The 24 hour backup battery that they have planned is pretty sweet also.

DIY or not this style of pump is going to be the only way to go in the very near future.

AndyL · #16 12/09/2005, 10:47 PM

Was thinking back to my RC days... How about a radical size reduction to the Vortech?

The electric R/C plane world's been radically changed by the switch to the brushless motor - specifically the development of the "cdrom" motors (originally borrowed from old CDROM drives).

See www.gobrushless.com. Now if you mounted a stator on the outside of the tank, you could have a 1/2" or less thick outside plate. Nice thing about the brushless motors is you can custom wind them for torque or rpms as needed...

Mount the magnets which would be mounted in the can, into some acrylic in the proper spoked patern, encase in weldon12, you've got your 'can' say 1/4" thick, mount that inside a casing similar to the MJ stream mod, and voila... maybe 1 or 1.5" inside the tank, 1/2" or less outside...

Of course you need a brushless controller (cheap as 25.99 at towerhobbies) then a simple control circuit so you can tell it how fast to run.

There, that should get some of ya thinking/drooling/working on ideas

EcoTech Marine · #17 12/10/2005, 01:23 AM

Looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with!

Justin

Herbert T. Kornfeld · #18 12/10/2005, 01:33 AM

Hey Sanjay...glad you have an opinion on this. Engineering student to Engineering Prof...I wanted to ask you...do you see an advantage to their design with the moving magnet on the outside? The EcoTech design has the motor on the outside, which includes a magnet which is spun by the motor, and then that spinning magnet is what goes through the glass.

It seems redundant to me...and one too many moving parts. Is it really easier that way...or couldnt you simply put your electromagnetic motor on the glass, and the impeller on the other side without the need for the spinning magnet on the outside of the tank...Im thinking less noise here as well?

z_rivers · #19 12/10/2005, 01:44 AM

it seems like a very good addition flow wise to add to a tank. the only downside i see to this is how it has to be installed. it drills through the glass, so if you ever decide to move rock etc and want to change its position, your left with a hole in the side of your tank.

Purple Haze · #20 12/10/2005, 02:01 AM

it will have more options than the Tunze from what I understand. Despite any "exchange rate" barriers, i'm sure it will be more than the Tunze.

Jmho

Herbert T. Kornfeld · #21 12/10/2005, 03:09 AM

"it seems like a very good addition flow wise to add to a tank. the only downside i see to this is how it has to be installed. it drills through the glass, so if you ever decide to move rock etc and want to change its position, your left with a hole in the side of your tank."

-z_rivers

That is incorrect. There is no glass drilling involved. Think 'mag-float', as in, you spin the handle and the magnetic scraper inside the tank on the other side of the glass spins as well. Magnetic stirrer with a propeller if you will.

Sheesh...its plain as day folks...thats the whole buzz behind these pumps...no drilling yet the pump mounts on the outside of the tank!

Donw · #22 12/10/2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Hey Sanjay...glad you have an opinion on this. Engineering student to Engineering Prof...I wanted to ask you...do you see an advantage to their design with the moving magnet on the outside? The EcoTech design has the motor on the outside, which includes a magnet which is spun by the motor, and then that spinning magnet is what goes through the glass.

It seems redundant to me...and one too many moving parts. Is it really easier that way...or couldnt you simply put your electromagnetic motor on the glass, and the impeller on the other side without the need for the spinning magnet on the outside of the tank...Im thinking less noise here as well?

I dont think anyone hase ever seen the inards of these guys but that may be how they do it. I could see putting the EM winding on the outside with a n and s pointing toward the glass. Pulsing the EM at different rates would change the speed of the impellor.
Or just using different dcv to lower the speed.

Don

AndyL · #23 12/10/2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donw
I dont think anyone hase ever seen the inards of these guys but that may be how they do it. I could see putting the EM winding on the outside with a n and s pointing toward the glass. Pulsing the EM at different rates would change the speed of the impellor.
Or just using different dcv to lower the speed.

Don

Just going by size, it's likely a brushed motor on the outside (why else would they need that ?2"?) Then like said magnetic connection through glass. Depending on the motor (and possibly gear reduction) it could be quiet, or a howler.

The brushless system could be done (I've been advised to rip open a floppy drive to look at it's motor) but then there are electronic controls - not a simple dc source/rheostat to control.

The brushless system seems simpler, in less moving parts, but more complex in additional electronic controls.

Depends on how you look at the world really, personally I like the brushed motor for simplicity (I also complain about my 93 exploders lack of a carb or a distributor - to give you a frame of reference) but the brushless design would be smaller and quieter... Which is a definite improvement.

Andy

Donw · #24 12/10/2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndyL
Just going by size, it's likely a brushed motor on the outside (why else would they need that ?2"?) Then like said magnetic connection through glass. Depending on the motor (and possibly gear reduction) it could be quiet, or a howler.

The brushless system could be done (I've been advised to rip open a floppy drive to look at it's motor) but then there are electronic controls - not a simple dc source/rheostat to control.

The brushless system seems simpler, in less moving parts, but more complex in additional electronic controls.

Depends on how you look at the world really, personally I like the brushed motor for simplicity (I also complain about my 93 exploders lack of a carb or a distributor - to give you a frame of reference) but the brushless design would be smaller and quieter... Which is a definite improvement.

Andy

I highly doubt it is a brushed motor. I would assume if it does have a moving internal magnet its just a custom electromagnet set up like a power head. Why would you complain about an exploders lack of distributor and or carb?

Don

AndyL · #25 12/10/2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donw
I highly doubt it is a brushed motor. I would assume if it does have a moving internal magnet its just a custom electromagnet set up like a power head. Why would you complain about an exploders lack of distributor and or carb?

Don

Suppose it could be ala powerhead, I tend to think more in "off the shelf" components more than custom designed/built. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to?

Because I can understand and follow how a distributor and carb work, I can visually see the processes involved. Once a computer starts controlling everything, I can't see that - can't follow its decision making process, thus its magic - thus its bad.

Although I did warm up to electronic ignition systems, so much less headache than points. But i'll still take a distributor over a block of coils.

Andy