Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing - Page 2

damura · #26 10/11/2007, 05:01 PM

I dose my kalkwasser at night to balance the natural drop in pH. if i would add vinegar to the kalkwasser solution i wouldn't get the same effect wouldn't i ? (vinegar is acidic therefore titrating the hydroxide ions in the kalkwasser solution)
i still want my top up water coming from the kalkwasser reactor to be with a pH of at least 10. Did you check the pH when using vinegar?

Another thing, i started using Vodka in my system 10 days ago following the original german article and in the mean time it works like a charm!!! i have a 1000lt system and i started with a 10ml dose per day, i am now at 25 and all my bryopsis are finally dying!!!

SDguy · #27 10/11/2007, 05:40 PM

And coral colors? Do you have a high fish load? BB?

woz9683 · #28 10/11/2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Try dosing Vodka. I do 6ml of everclear (95%) per 100g of system volume. If you do 40proof (20%), you would do 28ml. You will be shocked as to how much skimmate your system can produce if you do this. The ethanol feeds bacteria in your system which also feed on nitrates and phosphates... and then your skimmer pulls it all out (normally nitrates and phosphates cant be directly skimmed, so the vodka 'enables' the skimmer to do more). Seriously, I had tea colored skimmate, and not alot... and my water was sorta yellow. A few weeks later, and my water is much clearer (havent even changed the carbon recently... oops), and my skimmer is filling up every other day with dark coffee... no adjustments to the skimmer either for darker skimmate... its all the ethanol.

I found one place where Hahn mentions the difference in dosing amount between vodka and everclear. Although I'm not aware of any vodkas at only 40 proof.

jamesdawson · #29 10/11/2007, 06:55 PM

For everyone's information, the new (Oct-Nov 07) English edition of Coral Magazine has the 2nd part of an report by a Dr. Dieter Brockmann on nitrate and it deals mostly with denitrifying filter systems including dosing vodka directly into a tank and also dosing it into a closed denitrator.
It also covers the sulphur denitrators.

I myself have been running an vodka fueled Aquaripure denitrator (http://www.aquaripure.com/) for 3 years and it always keeps my nitrate level below 3ppm as read by a colorimeter.

Anyways, good reading for those interested.

James

damura · #30 10/12/2007, 02:06 AM

James,

sorry for the ignorance but how can i read coral magazine?
is it on the internet(e-magazine) or is it on paper?

Thanks.

acrylic_300 · #31 10/12/2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

i still want my top up water coming from the kalkwasser reactor to be with a pH of at least 10. Did you check the pH when using vinegar?

No. I checked my tanks pH afterwards...I was trying to lower my pH because it was pushing 8.5 during the day. I have been adding 25ml per gal. and the pH is down to 8.2 now.

Can corals eat these bacteria?

jamesdawson · #32 10/12/2007, 11:13 AM

Damura,

Its a real (paper) high-end Reef magazine out of Europe that a English edition is brought into the US by Leng Sy of the Miracle Mud Ecosystem company. You can subscribe or find it in many of the better Reef Shops.

See this link:
http://www.coralmagazine.com/

James

damura · #33 10/12/2007, 12:01 PM

Thanks James,

since i'm from Israel i'll contact their european office.

seems like a very advanced magazine. It's quiet expensive.

Anyway, corals and all filter feeders eat bacteria, but the thing that "eats" them the most is your PS.

Serioussnaps · #34 10/12/2007, 12:38 PM

Everclear is either 190 or 200 proof. I think it is 200 proof, but I would have to check. So you would dose less than half as much of an 80 proof vodka?

To fliintneric: I have been dosing only sugar for a few months now. Everyone is concerned with a monopoly by one bacterial strain with using only one C source. I have seen no ill affects of doing this. Should I start using some vodka or prodibio to counterbalance this? Is it really needed or is it conjecture?

crab0000 · #35 10/12/2007, 12:43 PM

I've been dosing a mixture of 1cup vodka, 1cup vinegar and 1tsp. suger dosed at .6 mL twice per day in my 37 for about two weeks now. I have noticed all macro turning white and dying, so it seems to be working. I'm thinking about upping the dose a little to see if it changes anything.

damura · #36 10/12/2007, 12:52 PM

with a dose of 10ml for my 250g i have noticed my long lasting bryopsis losing their colors in only 3-4 days!!! since then they are dying.
I can say that after 18 months of struggle with them, they are history

burris · #37 10/12/2007, 01:00 PM

In California, for instance, 190 proof non-denatured alcohol apparently isn't legal to sell so Everclear there is only 151 proof. Check the label before calculating the dose.

200 proof would be 100% alcohol. It's hard (expensive) to get that last bit of water out so you can't really get 100% alcohol, except from a chemical supply house. Worse, the water goes right back in as soon you open it since alcohol is hygroscopic.

So if you have an old bottle of alcohol sitting around, odds are it has less alcohol than is stated on the label.

damura · #38 10/12/2007, 02:03 PM

burris hi,

i wouldn't dig into the purity of your alcohol too much. just use whatever you have even if it's cheap vodka, as long as it's not denatured(mixed with toxic chemicals like methanol).

stony_corals · #39 10/12/2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jamesdawson
For everyone's information, the new (Oct-Nov 07) English edition of Coral Magazine has the 2nd part of an report by a Dr. Dieter Brockmann on nitrate and it deals mostly with denitrifying filter systems including dosing vodka directly into a tank and also dosing it into a closed denitrator.
It also covers the sulphur denitrators.

I myself have been running an vodka fueled Aquaripure denitrator (http://www.aquaripure.com/) for 3 years and it always keeps my nitrate level below 3ppm as read by a colorimeter.

Anyways, good reading for those interested.

James

As I recall he wasn't too hot on it, I'll have to re-read it...

stony_corals · #40 10/12/2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crab0000
I've been dosing a mixture of 1cup vodka, 1cup vinegar and 1tsp. suger dosed at .6 mL twice per day in my 37 for about two weeks now. I have noticed all macro turning white and dying, so it seems to be working. I'm thinking about upping the dose a little to see if it changes anything.

Just curious how you came up with this solution? Did you just start dosing at that level? How long?

stony_corals · #41 10/12/2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woz9683
I found one place where Hahn mentions the difference in dosing amount between vodka and everclear. Although I'm not aware of any vodkas at only 40 proof.

I think he's a bit confused, most vodka is 80 proof or 40% alcohol... Though everclear is up there in % of alcohol...

stony_corals · #42 10/12/2007, 02:13 PM

So has color improved in your sps since dosing C? Any data about nutrient levels?

damura · #43 10/12/2007, 02:25 PM

whether you use everclear or vodka doesn't matter as long as you calculate the difference. i use Vodka which is 40% ethanol, if i would be able to use everclear i would dose half the amount, because the ethanol concentration in it is approx. double (95%) that's all

acrylic_300 · #44 10/12/2007, 02:43 PM

I'm very interested in learning more about the corals eating bacteria. Supposedly the vinegar bacteria take up alkalinity then later release it.

I have witnessed that Alk readings gradually rise sort of like a time release when using vinegar.

I'm wondering how it effects a coral to eat a bacteria that has taken up alkalinity. Is this how corals normally take up Alk? can they use it the same way?

Anyone have an idea about this?

SDguy · #45 10/12/2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stony_corals
So has color improved in your sps since dosing C? Any data about nutrient levels?

I would also be curious. Anyone dose purely to help coral colors (ie no macro or micro algae problems to begin with)? What were the results?

stony_corals · #46 10/12/2007, 04:07 PM

Peter, I have. While my intended use was to lower nutrient levels, the end goal was to improve colorization. It has, though with some slight overdosing, I've seen corals go pale in colorization, meaning that they are probably suffering from N limitation.

acrylic_300, yes, that is one of the key components of the probiotic approaches (Zeo etc) that the corals will consume the bacteria.

SDguy · #47 10/12/2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stony_corals
acrylic_300, yes, that is one of the key components of the probiotic approaches (Zeo etc) that the corals will consume the bacteria.

Then perhaps O3 use may be counterintuitive after all...

acrylic_300 · #48 10/12/2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDguy
Then perhaps O3 use may be counterintuitive after all...

What I was thinking about was all the times Iv'e heard don't dose carbon without the most powerful skimmer.

I'm wondering if you all ready have low nutrients....why not load some bacteria up and let the corals feed on them without skimming so heavily?

If you don't skim them out what happens? They are low on the food chain...can zooplankton eat bacteria? Or is bacteria considered zooplankton?

stony_corals · #49 10/12/2007, 08:00 PM

I don't think so Peter. Jorg recommended it due to the increased demand for O2...

acrylic_300 · #50 10/12/2007, 08:35 PM

Why couldn't oxygen demand be controlled by dosing. Don't get me wrong I understand the hazards. I killed a fish or two screwing around with sugar and recommended doses.

I poured 50 ml in my nitrate reactor and overdosed once

I have not dosed over 1/4 tsp since that day.

O3 and skimmers probably kill them before they meet their full potential. If the full potential is depleting oxygen then that is good.

On a side note: I have removed them with a 100 micron filter. I'm sure they don't get that big; however, as they colonize the filter they plug it up. It actually removes them pretty fast.