SPS hanging/suspension

[bgdiving]

Scubadude that sounds great. Are you seeing any new axial coralites yet? I wonder what that other coral, you have hanging upside down but attached to a spinkler strainer, is going to grow out like? wonder how fast it'll encrusted the strainer and what kind of branch structure it'll have?

My suspended blue acro is looking really nice and my green pociliporas are really growing. I'm thinking of trying the very bright pink pocilipora, I really don't have very much of this coral so I'm a little concerned about expermenting with it. but all my other suspended corals are doing very well so I might give it a try. Hoping it will increase the total growth rate??? If I do frag it I'll end up with over half of the coral suspended since it's so small.

[scubadude]

yes the coral does have new axialites....lots of them actually, at least 3-4 of them. The one piece w/the sprinkler strainer is encrusting fast, and the axialites that where pointed up when the piece was standing upright are starting to turn back towards the light now. I really think you should try it w/your pink pocillapora I feel quite confident that from seeing how it works in your tank and how it is working in my tank that it cannot hurt a coral, if anything it helps....Dont you have a couple of pieces of the pink pocillapora? it really is best i think when you have two pieces that are very similar in size to compare differences

[Frick-n-Frags]

bgdiving and scubadude, are you noticing better growth (adding volume I guess) on the suspended frags vs the standard mounted ones or is it still too soon to tell. Are they all kind of in the same environment (light intensity, flow) so you can definitely tell if the hanging technique generates better growth than the standard mounted ones.

I have been having problems with algae on the strings because nothing can get to them. Have you guys had any of those kinds of problems ?

[bgdiving]

On one piece of green pocilipora I feel I have an extra 20 to 25 new growth tips that I would not have had other wise, had I not removed the branch from the parent or had prop it hte normal way. On some of the others I don't see that kind of difference but it does seem to be a ltttle more coral tissue than there would have been other wise.

It's hard to say about conditions the suspended are all up higher than the others but not always more light.

Anthony Calfo says algae shouldn't be a problem in a well maintained low nutrient tank, but I don't skim and I definately have to remove algae from the string.

[Frick-n-Frags]

thanx bg, I am in the same boat: no skimmer, but at least I know it's not just me. I should try some more suspended frags too of different types. I have two pieces of tan Montipora digitata swinging, but they aren't the most "branchy" corals, for sure not like Poci or Acros.
Time to tighten up the controls and get another test going too I think.

[scubadude]

hey frick and bg

I do skimm and still get a little bit of algae on the string (doesnt appear to bother anything though)...but one thing I have noticed is the coral has already covered the part of the string that is tied around the coral (you cant even see the loop) I also have noticed more growth because I think there is more room for it to grow, especially the frag that doesnt have the sprinkler filter attached to it

[Anthony Calfo]

For what its worth, one small detail that I feel that I may not have communicated clearly enough to friends/aquarists is that it is arguably easier to culture frags in suspension without any natural or artificial substrates in concert.

By simply tying a string to a pure frag (no rock, plastic, plug, base, etc) there is no need for support by herbivores (snails, crabs, etc) or threat of settling nuisance alage short of the string itself which is easily swabbed once or twice a month if necessary.

In this manner, a developing scleractinian sphere is all "claws and paws"... all healthy living tissue which algae will not settle upon and snails are unlikely to graze if it did.

Using a base or plug (heehee... was that a nylon bolt? cool) certainly will present little harm especially if nutrient control in the system tempers the possible settlement of nuisance algae or the aquarist is willing to deal with such until live tissue covers the non-living substrate. Little help or harm to have a base included IMO. Whatever suits your porpoise best (Hmmm... what do Pinnipeds have to do with this?!?!).

For the benefit of those reading this thread unawares... there is an article on this topic in one of the summer issues of Reefkeeping as well as a passage in my book on the topic as well.

Fraggenstein... way cool pics The lobotomy has been a blessing and a boon for your contributions to our hobby.

Rocky... you are still clinically insane, which is why I am sure that you naturally migrated to this industry

best to all, Prozac on the house

Anthony

[bgdiving]

Went ahead and suspended a few more corals this afternoon. Did the bright pink pocilipora (the small branched one Not the thicker ones that I bought as Pocilipora but can't possitively diferentiate from the bright pink stylos) they ended up prety small one came out the way I expected but the other took an extra snap so I ended up with 3 frags instead of the 2 I planned so one got mounted on substrate and the other 2 suspended. Also did a pinkish purple pocilipora and a thick brached acro that had been a bleached out light lavender when I got it but is now a nondiscript brown. This acro suspention was more an effort to save some lower branches that were going to be lost in a couple of wks so it may not be a good test.


Anthony, I've had fun with this method since reading your article. Scubadude came up and saw what I was doing and got excited about all the new growth I had so he was excited about trying it. Now my tanks are starting to look like spider webs!

[Anthony Calfo]

bgdiving,

Very great to hear

Now... more pictures...more pictures of your specimens over time!

I'm still a lousy photgrapher and I'll need photos for upcoming books and articles.

How shameless was that on a scale of 1 to 10? with 1 being a subtle hint, 5 being a note on a napkin and 10 being a 450lb belly dancer with the request written in body paint across the undulating folds of her midsection.

Just a question...

Anthony

[bgdiving]

I did take a few pics along the way, quite a few at first and none recently so I should take a few now to show some good before and after shots. I've only posted 1 pic to reef central posts and I don't seem to have a way to post a pic directly into the body of the message so I can't show a start and Now type comparison.

I'll try to get out and take a pic tomorrow and post it and post a start pic

[Goby1Knoby]

Great Thread Guy's

Well I gotta say thats a new one, re: the suspending frags.

Great idea and a great way to ensure , after initial growth all the coral receives adequate light.

Frick & Frags.

What about a few more pics, dont be shy

Tony

Ta for the mail about your book, will be contacting the UK supplier.

As for the Bellydancer with the " spare tyre ", youve just put me off my lunch


Cheers


Brian.

[Frick-n-Frags]

I wanted the "bottle in front of me" but the dyslexic mutha's gave me the "frontal lobotomy" It's OK though as long as I don't drool into the tanks and always wear my bib.

[bgdiving]

I'll try to get the pics up don't know how to do them in line so that you could see them both at the same time. The first one is the initial frag day 1 or 2 after suspending

[bgdiving]

About 3 months and 3 days later. You can see the new growth unfortantely due to different settings you can not tell the total size change. The frag is still in the same position as it was originally but the growth pattern has changed

[scubadude]

very interesting pics brian

Thanx for posting those....Is it me or do you also notice that the branches that point down have actual stunted growth (they appear to be shorter) Maybe this is from the lack of light? But your other pieces that I saw (I believe the A. Tenius the branches actually just rerouted upward)

[bgdiving]

The originaly downward pointed branches have made a U turn and have started to turn around but are having to make a wide turn beacause of all the new upward branch growth (coming from what use to be the under side of the branches) above forcing the lower branches to go more outward as they try to make the turn. allmost like a woolly Mamamath tusk that heads downward then start to curve around. If you look closely at the last pic you can track out one of the lower branches as it starts to make the turn. The branch just left of center on the bottom is a good example.

The" A. Tenius (?)" blue tips are starting to curve upward but it is also starting to send out new axial coralites perpendicular all along the descending branch and the cut upward facing end has turned a bright dark blue and is sending out several new axial coralites also so the lower original tips are going to have to circumnavigate the new growth above. Right now the lower tips have turned 90 degrees. This acro should start to become real interesting over the next month as all these new branches start to grow.

[SawCJack00]

Very interesting. Now I've got a project for tonight. I'll be cutting some corals and stringin' them up. Should be fun!

[bgdiving]

Scubadude,
Anthony Calfo indicated in his article that suspention was best done in a dedicated tank with a uncluttered white sand bottom. I wonder if the tips on the downward pointed branches would continue to grow down with a bright light reflecting substrate? I know that's not happening with mine because they are all making the turn to go up BUT I am not susspending them over a clear , bright ,reflective bottom.

I'm so intrigued by the way the blue " A. Tenius (?)" is developing that I'm contimplating fragging out 2 larger branches from one of the 2 colonies that I was going to let grow out. I wasn't going to touch these two BUT.... I think I could get two 3 to 4 inch frags with 5 branches on each frag from the " A. Tenius (?)" at the back of my tank that is being shadowed by those xenias at the water surface. What kind of a difference do you think it will make strating with a larger frag with more branches? Is there an optimum size when it comes to hanging frags. Maybe bigger isn't better???

[Corpus Callosum]

what about trying this also..

Get a motor that will go like 1-5 rpm or so, mount it right above the tank on a wall or something. Hook the shaft up to a plastic/acrylic rod which will vertically go into the water and have a plastic gear on the end of it. On a plate of plexiglass or something, will be a whole row of other plastic gears on plastic shafts so they can rotate, and they will all be touching the original gear so they will all rotate, slowly though. Then mount frags to each gear. Also hover the whole row of gears or whatever, a couple inches above the substrate so no snails get in the way and stop them rotating.

[Anthony Calfo]

sci33

Is Long Islnad anywhere near Brooklyn? I'll be giving a presentation on Coral Propagation to the BAS club Friday (9/13/02)... if you have any such contraptions at your place I'll have to beg for a guest pass and bring a camera !

Very interesting concept... heehee.

Anthony Calfo

[Corpus Callosum]

obsolete

[bgdiving]

sci33
A little tooo complex for me, in fact most of my tanks do NOT have sumps partly to keep things simple. if you work it up please post back to this thread and let us know also post pics.

Anthony Calfo
Any thoughts on what is an ideal size frag for hanging? Do larger frags block their own light,( Most of us playing with this idea right now are NOT using dedicated tanks) Also what size do you allow them to grow to before doing something else with them?

[Corpus Callosum]

I know everyone always says keep it simple and you won't have problems but if you don't try some new complex things sometimes you will never advance.

(I have a 45 gallon sump on my 10 gallon tank )

Also, I remember reading that a white sand substrate is preferred? Why not just use a bare bottom tank and on the underside of the tank place a sheet of spectral aluminum.

Or forget about that, I would like to set up a dedicated tank on an iron stand with no substrate, with suspended corals. One metal halide in a reflector/pendant above the tank, and one identical metal halide below the tank facing upwards giving almost the same amount of light from both sides.

[Anthony Calfo]

"Any thoughts on what is an ideal size frag for hanging? Do larger frags block their own light,( Most of us playing with this idea right now are NOT using dedicated tanks) Also what size do you allow them to grow to before doing something else with them?" BG

Definately no ideal size or rule of thumb other than minimal branching. As you have noticed, new branches will grow in suit to the new light and current. As such, a frag taken with a lot of branches in an unfavorable orientation are not only a waste of effort (better to break such a piece down smaller) but the very presence of said "unfavorably" oriented branches may be an impediment to light and current for the new/future growth. I'm specifically thinking of a piece with a lot of downward branches.

Ultimately, the frag will adapt in time... but with regard for efficiency, I'll opt for smaller or less arborescent frags.

As far as terminal grow out size... that's really a functional matter. It varies for each grower and their respective purposes. Some folks simply want to grow a coral large and fast to ultimately be fixed to rock as a display piece while other aquarists are looking to culture as many individual frags as possible. That aquarist looking to boost the number of individuals in the colony will not want to let the frags stay suspended very long, but rather frequently grow and break, grow and break. Else, overgrowth of suspended frags dedicted to produce other frags imposes undue/extra demands for adapation.

Its all experimental though... please manipulate and improvise and report your successes!

With kind regards,

Anthony

[bgdiving]

Anthony
When you mention grow and break , grow and break for maximun production. Would you totally break up the suspended frag and then hang one of the broken off sections to start the process all over again. Or would you snap branches or sections off the "parent" colony and re hang the stumpy parent.