FlameAngel group. - Page 2

sunfishh · #26 11/26/2006, 01:18 PM

The second set of videos is even better than the first

Jaken · #27 11/27/2006, 03:17 AM

This is what the germans say is the difference, male/female.
Centropyge loriculus
Männchen mit spitz ausgezogener Rücken- und Afterflosse, meistens mit kräftiger schwarzer und blauer Zeichnung in diesem Bereich. Bei den Weibchen und Jungtieren sind die Flossenränder fast völlig gerade. Es werden deutlich mehr Männchen importiert. Männchen werden sehr aggressiv gegen andere neu eingesetzte Centropyge. Zwei Männchen dulden sich auch in größeren Aquarien oft nicht.

(translated with babelfish).
Centropyge loriculus
Male with pointedly dorsal and anal fin, mostly with strong black and blue design within this range. With the females and young animals the edges of fin are nearly complete straight. There are imported clearly more males. Males become very aggressive against other Centropyge. Two males often do not bear themselves even in larger aquariums.

http://archiv.korallenriff.de/05Gu_3.html
Look at the difference of the fins.

Male

Female

Angel*Fish · #28 11/27/2006, 03:24 AM

Good photos -

The males usually look almost like they have a triangle of blue on each fin whereas with the female it is just a thin bit of blue trim along the caudal edge.

Plus notice how much thinner the female's black bars are.

Jaken · #29 11/27/2006, 04:18 AM

Angel*Fish do you have a closeup photo of your pair?

adddo · #30 11/27/2006, 05:46 AM

And i can tell you this tank is even more gorgeous in real life

I gotta come over and see the Flame's now that you've got them in the tank Jakob!

Jaken · #31 11/27/2006, 06:08 AM

Thanks You're always welcome Bjarne. You know where to find me.

Angel*Fish · #32 11/27/2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaken
Angel*Fish do you have a closeup photo of your pair?

No, not any good ones - but I intend to get some, my camera is dead & I think I'm getting a new one for my birthday next week

When i do I'll post some - Here's the photo my avatar came from, FWIW:

Spikehs · #33 11/29/2006, 12:29 PM

I posted a question about a species only tank, and a flame angel only tank has really caught my eye after this thread! just awsome... Do you think it would be possible to introduce a pair or trio of flame angels into a 50gal tank? (36x18x18).. they would more than likely be the sole fish in there... thanks!

sohalfr · #34 11/29/2006, 02:53 PM

Awesome..... what size are they ? close to adults ar still juveniles ?

I've 2 pairs of pygmy angels in my tank, African and Potter's...
It's all the time a pleasure to see them evolve in the tank. Having a harem is a dream for me...
One day, I'll get one for sure

or may be 2 harems... in 2 separate tanks.. or in a big tank of more than 1000 liters

Jaken · #35 11/29/2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

I posted a question about a species only tank, and a flame angel only tank has really caught my eye after this thread! just awsome... Do you think it would be possible to introduce a pair or trio of flame angels into a 50gal tank? (36x18x18).. they would more than likely be the sole fish in there... thanks!

Sorry, I can not give you an answer if your tank is large enough. I have only had my harem for 1 week. My tank is 150cm*60cm*60cm.

Quote:

Originally posted by sohalfr
Awesome..... what size are they ? close to adults ar still juveniles ?

I've 2 pairs of pygmy angels in my tank, African and Potter's...
It's all the time a pleasure to see them evolve in the tank. Having a harem is a dream for me...
One day, I'll get one for sure or may be 2 harems... in 2 separate tanks.. or in a big tank of more than 1000 liters

Do you have any photos of your pairs? How can you tell the males from the females?

They are about 4 centimiters, the largest male is 6 centimeters.

sohalfr · #36 11/29/2006, 03:31 PM

Unfortunately I've no decent picture to show...

I've had the african flameback for more than 1,5 years and they mate almost each week

. When they engage in courtship, the female blanches. Almost all the blue part turn to white !

For the Potter's it's a little bit to early to say... They're in the tank since september. I bought 2 with different size, 3 and 6 cm. But they already start some courtship from time to time. The biggest one has a broader blue area on the body which is reported to be a male attribute.

Angels are protogynous hermaphrodites, so setting up a pair or a harem with 4/5 small pygmy angels (certainly all females) will lead to a sex change for the dominant one !

Jaken · #37 11/29/2006, 03:40 PM

Except for the colour and size of your Afrikan Flamebacks, are there any differences in the shape of the fins?

scoutmaniak · #38 11/29/2006, 06:09 PM

I know this is alittle late, but I think this is sweet!! Ive been told by everyone I know to NEVER keep more than one pygmy angel in a tank, no mater how big it is. And you guys have breeding pairs, and whole groups. I think the pygmys are one of the most beautiful fish you can put in an aquarium. This changes my whole look on how im gonna do my tank. I know you can mix tank bred clowns if you introduce them at the same time and give them some space, this seems to hold true for the angels as well. Thanks guys for posting all the great pics and info!!

Michael

Jaken · #39 11/30/2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scoutmaniak
Ive been told by everyone I know to NEVER keep more than one pygmy angel in a tank, no mater how big it is. And you guys have breeding pairs, and whole groups.

That is what I have read and been told to. "It´s impossible to have more then one or if you are lucky and get a pair they might get along."
Unfortunately there are a lot of presumptions in this hobby.

And I wanted to give this little experiment a shot anyway.

LargeAngels · #40 11/30/2006, 09:32 AM

Multiple angels, small and large, can be kept together, but sometimes certain angels will NOT tolerate others and there is consequences to this such as death. I have found that some angels, and fish, just have either a gentle or aggressive personality. Research and be carefull. But it can be done. How long they have been established, how big they are and color diffeence makes the difference. When I have more time I can share more of my experience.

I looked and my female flame has a rounded tail and my males have pointed fins.

Jaken · #41 11/30/2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LargeAngels

I looked and my female flame has a rounded tail and my males have pointed fins.

Thanks, just as i suspected.

lvreefer · #42 11/30/2006, 02:08 PM

Some additional info:

There are slight differences in both coloration and markings of this species based on the location of collection. Flames from the Marshall Islands are more red in color, with thicker black bars running vertically down the body. Flames from the Cook Islands are more orange in coloration with either small black bars, or only a few thin bars running vertically down the body. Christmas Island Flames are normally a red/orange coloration with thin black bars running vertically down the body. Flames from Tahiti are blood red and contain very little to no yellow.

also,
It is hermaphroditic, very difficult to breed in an aquarium, and has no distinguishable differences in color between male to female.

This does not discount any remarks about fin shape. I hope that it proves to be a telling sign of sex.

lvreefer · #43 11/30/2006, 02:14 PM

Oops also forgot about Hawaiian flames. They are always more expensive and generally have more red and purple. They aren’t collected as often since they are from Hawaii and they have to reserve the export counts for yellow tangs (roughly 52% annually come from Hi.)

Spikehs · #44 11/30/2006, 02:44 PM

I always thought flame angels couldn't change sex.... so if I was to get three for my 50gal (36x18x18), all very small, I would have a resonably good chance at success? opinions?

Jaken · #45 11/30/2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spikehs
I always thought flame angels couldn't change sex.... so if I was to get three for my 50gal (36x18x18), all very small, I would have a resonably good chance at success? opinions?

They are all born as females. They can change sex from female to male but not from male to female. If there arent a dominant male in the area one of the females will change sex to a male in just a few weeks. If a female is all alone in your local fish store or in a home aquarium it´s almost 100% male. It´s imported much more males then females they say. I think that the reason for this is that they change sex during the time of handling, transport, quarentine and alone in your local fish store.

Quote:

ivreefer:
This does not discount any remarks about fin shape. I hope that it proves to be a telling sign of sex.

Where did you find this information?

In German litterature the shape of the fins is a known difference. I belive that the colour differences of the male and female is a random factor that can not be trusted 100 percent.

LargeAngels · #46 12/05/2006, 10:16 AM

Any updates?

Angel*Fish · #47 12/05/2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lvreefer
Some additional info:

There are slight differences in both coloration and markings of this species based on the location of collection. Flames from the Marshall Islands are more red in color, with thicker black bars running vertically down the body. Flames from the Cook Islands are more orange in coloration with either small black bars, or only a few thin bars running vertically down the body. Christmas Island Flames are normally a red/orange coloration with thin black bars running vertically down the body. Flames from Tahiti are blood red and contain very little to no yellow.

also,
It is hermaphroditic, very difficult to breed in an aquarium, and has no distinguishable differences in color between male to female.

This does not discount any remarks about fin shape. I hope that it proves to be a telling sign of sex.

Are you talking about flames? Flames do indeed diplay sexual dichromatism -- IMO, people who think they don't either just haven't seen a female or don't know what to look for -you don't have to be concerned about the black bars - use the blue on the anal and rear of the dorsal fins.

zemuron114 · #48 12/05/2006, 02:05 PM

The bars on flame angels has nothing to do with the sex. I've seen a 4" flame with 1 bar, and a 1" flame with 6 bars.. just doenst matter. The only difference i have gathered and seen that can distinguish between male and female are the fins (what was said before ^^)
and the amount of blue on the fins. I also had a large male with streamers! it was very cool. I had never seen one with streamers before. Ive been experimenting with potters pairs. so far i have 3 solid pairs that are doing well and are getting along.

Jaken · #49 12/05/2006, 02:12 PM

Here is a pic of the hole crew. I think that I only have 1 female. Look at the first and the second pic.
I have noticed som "dancing", but not with the one that I suspect is a female included. Will try to capture it on video later.

Angel*Fish · #50 12/05/2006, 06:12 PM

Holy cow!

For those concerned about the bars - it's the thickness of each bar that will differ between males and females - not the number (And don't look at that first black bar that's more like a splotch) - But since there are regional differences in bar markings, it makes it more confusing.

BTW I didn't get a camera for my BD

Jaken, have you seen spawning angels before?