Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > More Forums > Reefkeeping Online Magazine > Brian Plankis

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12/08/2006, 11:08 PM
nematode nematode is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 611
hitchhikersq

Brian,
With all due respect, I think its not appropriate to call organisms that happen to appear on in our tanks due to indroduction with live rock as "hitchhickers". This gives the impression they are somehow not supposed to end up on our live rock!!
These are actually organisms that naturally live on live rock found in the ocean.
You move the live rock into your tank and they come along also.
It is to be expected that these organism should arrive with everything else.
And as transport times, methods for packaging, etc improve a larger and larger variety of naturally occuring organism will appear magically on live rock because they are SHOULD be there.

Perhaps we should talk about introduction of diverse fauna into the aquarium, but please drop the hitchhicker nomenclature.

Sincerely
nematode
  #2  
Old 12/09/2006, 10:09 AM
Skipper Skipper is offline
Editor - Reefkeeping
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 5,711
__________________
Skip Attix
Reefkeeping Magazine
  #3  
Old 12/09/2006, 08:02 PM
Agu Agu is offline
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Venice, Florida
Posts: 15,230
Quote:
And as transport times, methods for packaging, etc improve a larger and larger variety of naturally occuring organism will appear magically on live rock because they are SHOULD be there.

As the methods of packaging have improved the diversity of organisms transported with live rock has diminished in my experience.

The first time I bought live rock it was shipped from Figi in a sealed 5 gallon bucket completely submerged in water. The amount of life was amazing on that rock. There were also about 50 snails and hermit crabs that survived the trip.


Now with "improvements" in transport, rock is shipped wrapped in paper and barely damp to save the weight. Most of the Live Rock I see at the LFSs could barely pass as base rock.

Good article Brian, I'm happy to see you advocating that unknown organisms should be kept and observed .
__________________
Less technology , more biology .
  #4  
Old 12/10/2006, 06:28 PM
Fredfish Fredfish is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kitchener ON
Posts: 1,908
Nice article, but you completely failed to mention one of the luminaries in the 'hitchiker' ID game, Dr. Schemik.

Though he is no longer at RC, I find his forum more informative than any other out there when it comes to figuring out what you have and what it is likely to do in your tank.

His forum is interesting enough that he has 3 other practicing scientists visit regularly to see what shows up on the forum.

Fred
__________________
Advice is like a firehose. Be careful how you drink.
  #5  
Old 12/11/2006, 02:20 AM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
Re: hitchhikersq

Quote:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8711561#post8711561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nematode
Brian,
With all due respect, I think its not appropriate to call organisms that happen to appear on in our tanks due to indroduction with live rock as "hitchhickers". This gives the impression they are somehow not supposed to end up on our live rock!!
These are actually organisms that naturally live on live rock found in the ocean.
You move the live rock into your tank and they come along also.
It is to be expected that these organism should arrive with everything else.
And as transport times, methods for packaging, etc improve a larger and larger variety of naturally occuring organism will appear magically on live rock because they are SHOULD be there.

Perhaps we should talk about introduction of diverse fauna into the aquarium, but please drop the hitchhicker nomenclature.

Sincerely
nematode
Nematode,

I appreciate your response and while hitchhikers have received a bad reputation, I was only using the term because it is the most commonly used term for what comes attached, rightfully, as you point out, to live rock.

Personally, before reading your response I considered the term hitchhiker a neutral term, with the word "good" or "bad" in front determining people's opinion of the word. I ordered my live rock from Florida with the express purpose of getting hitchhikers. Perhaps your phrase "diverse fauna" is the better term, I was simply going with the most commonly recognized term.

I do see your point and I hope the focus of my article on respecting the diverse fauna coming in on our rocks helps to educate people on being aware and respectful of it.

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #6  
Old 12/11/2006, 02:36 AM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
Fred,

Thanks for the comment and I do have a deep respect for Dr Shimek (he was the person to suggest I start writing articles in the first place!) . While Dr. Shimek was left out of the discussion I did include his most relevant article and I would think anyone who has been around the hobby for a little while would know about him. I was trying to focus the article on the COP and respecting the life aspect, rather than where to get good IDs as I was hoping that was already well known.

Agu,

Live rock could definitely be treated better! I agree than a lot of the pacific live rock is shipped poorly, but I've also been hearing reports of some rock being shipped better and even a few hitchhiking corals surviving occasionally.

Of course Florida aquacultured rock shipped in water is far better for survival of the animals on the rocks. You get the good with the bad, but they sure are pretty!

I'm glad you appreciated my article.

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #7  
Old 12/15/2006, 03:47 PM
redwinger8 redwinger8 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 5
Brian, as a new member of Reef Central I find myslef glued to my screen for what seems like hours. Articles like yours give insight to new hobbiests such as myself. I am a biology grad student and have poured through my share of scientific papers, yours is well constructed and very easy to read. As a writer of published papers I know what peer-reviewed criticism is like so for what it's worth I thought you might like some positive feedback.
Thanks,
Shane
__________________
"I once met three guys named pain, suffering, and sacrifice. Now, we're inseparable. We're best friends." -Lance Armstrong
  #8  
Old 12/15/2006, 06:51 PM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
Shane,

Thanks for the comment! Always nice to get good feedback (of course bad feedback is also good sometimes too, makes you think!).

A biology grad student huh? That might be my next step. What are you studying?

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #9  
Old 12/28/2006, 11:08 AM
ReefCresteds ReefCresteds is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 53
I enjoyed reading your article on "hitchhikers". I too agree that too many people jump to the conclusion of killing what is unknown. I feel that respecting the life of the animal that came across the world to be in my tank is of very high importance. I have a 10 gal "species" tank setup where I put anything of question into. I feel by doing this I am respecting the life of these animals. Thanks for a good article.
  #10  
Old 12/28/2006, 01:03 PM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
ReefCresteds,

Thanks for the complement and good to see someone has a "species" tank for hitchhikers. Do you have a favorite hitchhiker that you can observe easily in the 10 gallon?

Cheers,

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #11  
Old 12/29/2006, 02:40 PM
aurora aurora is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 388
Brian,
I have a really bad majano infestation in my 300g sps tank and really need the help of your nudibranch. I also have a 75g refugium that have hundreds of majano anemone. In your article, you mentioned that you handed this off to someone for breeding/propagation. Can you tell me whether this person is successful in propagating a supply of these nudibranch. If available, I would like to get some.
  #12  
Old 12/29/2006, 02:52 PM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
Quote:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8850011#post8850011 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aurora
Brian,
I have a really bad majano infestation in my 300g sps tank and really need the help of your nudibranch. I also have a 75g refugium that have hundreds of majano anemone. In your article, you mentioned that you handed this off to someone for breeding/propagation. Can you tell me whether this person is successful in propagating a supply of these nudibranch. If available, I would like to get some.
I have sent an email to her, but I have not heard from her for almost a year, I'm not too hopeful she will respond.

Sorry I can't be of more help. It is my understanding that the larvae of this nudibranch are harder to raise than the larvae of Berghia, so it will take a dedicated and skilled breeder to get these going in the hobby.

If she responds, I will let you know.

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #13  
Old 12/29/2006, 10:50 PM
jnarowe jnarowe is offline
2011.5
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 9,742
Hey Brian! Just read your article. I have to say it seems to me that my personal crusade is to get LFS owners to actually sell "live" rock rather than dumping it in a tank with limited circulation, no light, and killing it all. Reefers all around me talk about "live rock" and I am ashamed to say I lecture just about every one of them.

When I got my rock, it came in direct from MI to my tank. I got real live rock, although a little dry due to the poor shipping practice of wrapping it in newspaper.

What survived?
--Several macro alga including halemeda, grape caulerpa, maiden's hair, valonia and some sort of fan shaped brown aglae.
--many small crabs
--limpets
--stomatella
--encrusting corals
--acropora
--porites coral
--many sponges
--red, orange, yellow, & blue coraline algae
--filter feeding worms galore
--as yet unidentified bivalves
--thorny oyster
--mini brittle stars
--shrimp

To be honest, I couldn't believe fish didn't jump out of this rock!

Here are a couple pictures immediately after the rock was placed into the display.

http://home.wavecable.com/~jrowe/mi%20rock1.jpg

http://home.wavecable.com/~jrowe/mi%20rock3.jpg

Because the water was cloudy, the only shots I could get were of the area closest to the glass but it is easy to see the life on the rocks. I have never seen rock like that in any LFS.

I also have a very hard time with the phrase, "cured rock", which I consider an industry scam to get people to pay a premium for dead rock. Whenever I hear reefers talking about curing rock, cooking rock etc. I just about drop a load. To me it is a shameful waste of life, and such a diverse spectrum of life at that. To see people paying $6 - 10+ per pound for "cured rock" makes me ill.

I have lectured my two LFS more than once and they both appear to be taking very slow steps to improve their rock holding systems. I even offered to pay for one LFS' entire rock system which would include a 1000g rubbermaid, skimmer, hammerhead pump, and 1000W MH lamp. He didn't bite if you can believe that.

Oh well. No sense in me busting a vein over it!
__________________
Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade
(Click on the Red House to see my pics garage)
  #14  
Old 01/02/2007, 01:45 AM
BrianPlankis BrianPlankis is offline
Invertebrate Advocate
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,915
Quote:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8853040#post8853040 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
I have lectured my two LFS more than once and they both appear to be taking very slow steps to improve their rock holding systems. I even offered to pay for one LFS' entire rock system which would include a 1000g rubbermaid, skimmer, hammerhead pump, and 1000W MH lamp. He didn't bite if you can believe that.

Oh well. No sense in me busting a vein over it!
I'm guessing LFS don't make a ton off LR, so they don't see the reason to invest in making it look prettier. It really is a shame, as more life would survive if it was just treated better.

The only time I've purchased Fiji LR in the past 5 years was two small pieces to use in a classroom demonstration tank to show the difference between LR imported from Florida in water and Fiji rock that is usually dry shipped. The difference is night and day, I'm glad to see you at least try to educate people on it

Brian
__________________
Currently redesigning my 90 gallon tank system to support coral and invertebrate breeding. Click on my red house to see the thread with the progress.
  #15  
Old 01/02/2007, 10:57 AM
jnarowe jnarowe is offline
2011.5
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 9,742
Actually they make quite a bit on LR. Fiji generally wholesales between $1.35 and $2/lb. MI, kaelani, etc. rock wholesale between $2.35 and $2.89/lb. so they are marking it up about 3X.
__________________
Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade
(Click on the Red House to see my pics garage)
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central™ Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2009