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#26
10/23/2007, 12:41 PM
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Not to mention the first article discusses this a LONG TIME ago in a situation not applicable to what this thread was intended to discuss. They use the dry method because shipping hundreds of frags wet is not cost effective. They EXPECT mortality. This isn't the case in what WE were talking about here until you came in playing devil's advocate.
"Commerical collectors may use the dry method, but more often they ship their corals in bags of seawater."-------OH MAN IT KEEPS GETTING BETTER The amount of info on shipping acroporids etc. makes up about 2% of the entire article and of that two percent half of it states most PREFER TO SHIP WET. Should I read the Eric B. article which I have already read? Bottom line is these things live in water and can't live without it. It only makes sense even to the biggest idiot on the planet why you would ship them wet. Why that hypothetical person's understanding is beyond yours I can't explain. Its ok to play devils advocate and present alternative shipping methods that aren't as successful/more risky, but it is another thing to come in here calling me misinformed. |
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#27
10/23/2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for enlightening us all.  Lets see.....Who ships A LOT who could actually benefit from shipping stuff dry and save some on freight. Instead of quoting so called "experts" that are either misquoted, taken out of context, or simply caught speaking beyond their knowledge (which happens frequently in this hobby unfortunately)........lets ask Live Aquaria and Marine Depot how often they ship dry. Anybody want to make the call?? |
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#28
10/23/2007, 01:25 PM
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I totally agree with Serioussnaps. Some frags may be shipped "damp" but I would definitely avoid it with acropora species. What really gets me is there are always people quoting what someone says but do not have any practical first hand knowledge on the subject. These people end up writing their opinions on the forums then people actually use their advice and it usually ends in disaster.
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#29
10/23/2007, 02:23 PM
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#30
10/23/2007, 07:39 PM
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I have read several times this works for zoas, but that's pretty much it. All orders i have received are in water, and have had very min misfortune.
also think it will be good if we wanted to include other types of corals. I was going to post this in the prop corals for sale section, but the read first things says - not for discussions. i wanted to hear all ideas, but am mainly looking for people with success! It is hard to weed out experience from he said she said. Post count doesn't work either, i know several with over 2000 posts and less than a year on here, i am sure they are not just from helping people. serioussnaps - thanks for all your input! |
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#31
10/23/2007, 10:10 PM
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Lot's of great info here, thanks for sharing everyone! Oh, and I would never ship dry, nor ever expect to receive anything dry... Bob |
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#32
10/30/2007, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
also, what is the thought on using thermos'? i haven't looked into the cost, but they sound like a good idea. I am going to post this in general and try to post in prop section and see if it lasts. i will include a link back to this one, so no need to repost - unless you want to! |
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#33
10/30/2007, 12:31 PM
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Lots of differing opinions here. Just goes to show there are many ways to do it.
As for shipping dry/wet I'm sure both ways will work for certain corals. I have had 700 snails shipped to me dry before and not one died. I shipped a purple monster colony to Taiwan. Something happened and the bag was leaking before it even left the US. 2 days after it left my hands the coral was dry. But it survived after being placed in the owner's tank. But I will still always continue to ship my frags submerged in water. As for boxes. Don't waste your $$ on the insulated boxes you order from places. My wife brings home boxes from work and I buy sheets of 1/2" styrofoam and cut them to line the boxes. I have shipped on 110 degree days and also on -5 degree days and done fine. The key is having a few different heat pack and cold pack options and knowing when to use which one. The heat packs that last longer will emit less heat. I use 40 hour packs on shipments that don't need a lot of heat. The heat packs that last for short amount of time emit more heat. These I use in extreme cold conditions. I also have different sized cold packs I use depending on summer temps. But I would say that 80% of my shipments are without a heat or cold pack. The boxes I use with the styrofoam liner I make is enough insulation to keep the temp stable unless the weather is at the more extreme ends of the spectrum. For bags, I use 3 mil bags that are 4" x 14". I will typically ship with 1/4 water to 3/4 air. The most important thing a coral needs to survive is oxygen. If there is a delay in a shipment, a coral shipped in a bag without enough oxygen can easily die of oxygen defficiency. I always have and always will guarantee live arrival. I also always throw in freebies. I treat people the way I want to be treated. These are all my opinions and what has worked for me. Like I said, there are many ways to do it. But don't listen to some guy that has never shipped a coral and is just quoting what he has read. Listen to the people that have had first hand experience doing it and listen to what has and has not worked for them. |
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#34
10/30/2007, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for the tip about the heat emission on different hour heat packs. Due to them emitting so much heat, I usually err on the side of not shipping them as temps dropping 4-5 degrees is alot better than them rising 10 degrees F you know, but now I will search for the longer lasting heat packs.
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#35
10/30/2007, 01:01 PM
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Yeah, the wrapping of the heat packs and different heat packs for different circumstances really can give you some pretty incredible control of what really goes on as far as temp. 40 hour heat packs is what I usually use as the thick quality coolers I use any stronger isnt necessary in any weather
OT kinda..........but I recall one of the first large corals shipments I ever sent out to three different people when I decided to get rid of all mushrooms out of my tanks. It was wintertime and all i could find was these 12 hour heat packs and I didnt understand the wrapping or placement of heat pack thing......... Long story short, my heat packs melted through bags AND partially through styrofoam in places and everything was cooked and then slightly chilled. One guy told me his girlfriend opened the box and actually vomited.  I gave everyone a full refund including shipping and was very embarassed, not to mention I tortured and killed a few hundred shrooms Last edited by flyyyguy; 10/30/2007 at 01:07 PM. |
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#36
10/30/2007, 04:44 PM
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I too was embarrassed the first time I used one of those 12 hour heat packs. I was at the bottom of my 40 hour packs and had 2 left. I went to get one ready for the shipment and it was already spent (this seems to be the case with about 1 in every 20 for me). Then I went to use the other and same thing. So I ran to the sporting goods store and all they had was the 12 hour packs. I used it like I had been using the 40 hour packs. Well, it got too hot and bleached over half of the corals. It was embarassing for me because I don't like to have errors that were my fault. After I got more 40 hour heat packs in, I replaced the lost corals and covered the shipping since the error was mine. Hopefully, some people reading this thread can learn from our errors without having to make them on their own.
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#37
10/30/2007, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
 I was at the LFS when he got a shipment from Malaysia, all the SPS had the base rubberbanded to a chunk of Styrofoam, it did a real nice job keeping the SPS in the water and keeping them from banging around
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A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them G.Washington |
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#38
10/30/2007, 06:47 PM
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I don't know what the true success rates are, but I do know that some sps seem to do better when shipped dry. I had a friend that ran a reef shop, who bought lots of sps colonies through wholesalers. All were shipped in water, and most were fine upon arrival. However, a large percent of the table acros would rtn when they showed up. Ocassionally table acros would arrive in a bag that had been punctured and were essentially "damp". It might have been a coincidence, but those table acros that arrived damp almost always survived. Once my friend noticed this, he began shipping all tables damp and enjoyed good success with that method.
That being said, I don't recommend that anyone start shipping damp just because of a few dozen observations. I am just passing along what I've experienced. Brad
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I HATE BROWN CORALS! |
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#39
10/31/2007, 09:30 PM
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I've never used a heat pack but for ice packs, I generally tape them to the top of the box and I wrap it several times in paper. It prevents it from dropping the temp of the water and just keeps the surrounding area cool.
Is that what you do with the heat packs? |
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#41
11/01/2007, 08:32 AM
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Yes, heat packs also need to be wrapped. My main reason for wrapping the heat pack is so the paper will absorb "some" water should there be a small leak during shipping. If the heat pack gets wet its done. I also wrap my heat pack according to how much heat I need for that shipment. A lot of paper if I need a little heat and a little paper if I need a lot.
This is my source for heat and cold packs: http://superiorenterprise.com/ |
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#46
11/15/2007, 09:27 AM
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Just wanted to say THANK YOU to all who have replied. I have successfully shipped 3 boxes, including 2 tort colonies!
for a heat pack, i used 12hr heat pads. Both people said everything was fine and no issues. I taped the heat pack to the lid with a couple layers of newspaper. packed with styrofoam peanuts. I found out you can meet the FedEx driver at a drop box and hand it to him. This helped alot since the latest store pickup is 4:30 and drop box is 5:30. Anyone want to sell me a handful of bags!? i don't have enough to get 1000 bag box, plus i can't find the mentioned 4x14" bags! Thanks again! Also, more shipping procedures - what about the thermos? |
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#47
11/15/2007, 02:44 PM
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If you are going to ship more than once in a while and you have an airport near you, get an account with and airline shipper. I can ship about 30 frags in a 20-22lb box for roughly $90 using Southwest Cargo. Better than the price is the shipping time is much quicker, 6-7 hours to LA from NY.
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-Joe |
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#48
11/15/2007, 03:42 PM
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Awesome thread.
Anymore information of peoples techniques for using heat and cold packs would be appreciated... It sounds like taping either to the top of an interior insulated box (styrofoam seems to be the preffered choice) is the best method? And to choose the appropriate type and amount it is wrapped based on the weather it will encounter? Any info on which for different circumstances? Looks like the "styrofoam skipping kits" are the way to go @ uline? That, peanuts and their poly bags? Do people go with standard rubberbands on the bags? I am thinking maybe zipties as well? Last edited by HBtank; 11/15/2007 at 03:52 PM. |
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#49
11/15/2007, 03:51 PM
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I used to double bag, and use a rubber band to tie an acro frag onto a piece of styrofoam. So the foam would float in the bag and the acro below the foam underwater. That way if the bag got turned over the frag would stay underwater. Always use a little extra water as it helped to ensure the acro made it in good shape. I would tape a heat pack to the top of the styro container. I just used some 12 hour ones from Riteaid that I would pick up for about $.50 a piece on sale. About 99% of my frags lived using this method.
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-Joe |
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