Budget Greenhouse Project

[reelheel]

Hi Hamburglar,

I really applaud your creativity with this system. I'm very interested in the continuing progress of your greenhouse, so please keep us posted!
I can't believe I haven't found this thread earlier. I live fairly close to New Bern, and I'd love to come check it out in person sometime. Since I've moved back to the eastern part of the state I've had trouble finding other serious hobbyists in this area.
Did you by any chance attend the MASC meeting in Raleigh a couple months ago?

James

[wdt2000]

Looks great, I am really interested to see how this works out once we get out of the hottest part of the summer.

I hope scubadude was wrong about your greenhouse as Ophelia looks like it is headed toward Eastern NC.

-Wil

[NorthernCF]

Thanks for a great thread full of candid and helpful posts!

Taggin' for the long run.

[hamburglar]

Scubadude, no harm intended. I was mostly in a foul mood. I do stand by the durability of this system. It is nearly all plastic, quite flexible, and anchored with a couple hundred lbs of concrete underground. But, I do not think it would survive much greater than a CAT2 hurricane without bracing

For those of you wondering, I think Ophelia's eye wall just slowly passed within 30 miles of my back yard. Ophelia was mostly a rain event, but I did make some interesting observations. First off, the greenhouse frame held solid. Not a single wobble during wind gusts. I think this is due to gluing in the panels, and having a very solid foundation. I am still impressed with the durability vs the affordability of this little greenhouse. The door and top vent also stayed closed without any problems.

My only issue was power loss, but that was only for about 5 hours. I took care of this with a deep cycle battery and a power inverter. I would have had a generator available the next day if needed. In the future I will just buy a generator...when (if) the system pays for one

In other news......The lower temps have been fantastic! The water temps are roaming in the mid-upper 70's with no heating or cooling except for simple fans. This has gone on for a couple of weeks now. The chiller I bought only kicked on a couple of day’s right after I bought it. I will leave it plumbed in because it has a heater controller built in. I will hook up one of my newly arrived Finnex 500 watt heat tubes to the chiller.

Diatoms are still growing fairly well. But, I have not had any other type of “funk� yet. Corals are still hit or miss. I guess a lot of them are upset about the warmer water, and greatly increased lighting. I have continued selling/swapping lots of frags, but the bulk of them still come from my indoor system. I hope to change that ratio in cooler weather with a little bit less daylight.

Reelheel, I was at the MASC meeting. I was the guy with way too much xenia to get rid of. I’ll have to plan some sort of open house for local guys sometime. It would probably be smart to do it through MASC to kind of pre-screen the visitors. I have a wife and kids here also.

More Later!

[scubadude]

Bravo! VERY glad to hear you made it ok!

[hamburglar]

Thanks Scubadude!

You know...I think the two of us need to face facts that we live in very hurricane prone areas. Perhaps we should just move to Chicago or somehing.

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by hamburglar
Thanks Scubadude!

You know...I think the two of us need to face facts that we live in very hurricane prone areas. Perhaps we should just move to Chicago or somehing.

Not Chicago, cost of living there will mean you get to keep a 5gal bucket with a piece of plastic wrap over it as your greenhouse

Brian

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
Not Chicago, cost of living there will mean you get to keep a 5gal bucket with a piece of plastic wrap over it as your greenhouse

Brian

But your bucket would never get flooded.

[reelheel]

Hey Hamburglar, thanks for the response. Please let me know if you organize any kind of event. I definitely understand you not wanting strangers at your place...even though I've actually had great luck (so far) with people I've met through RC and NCFrag.
Anyway, if you ever come up to Greenville let me know; I'd be glad to show you what used to be my garage! And I'll give you some pieces to try out in your greenhouse.

[hamburglar]

So what the heck happened to Fall? I think it lasted about a week. We are getting lows in the 30’s and 40’s this week. So how about a heating update……….

I have now installed two Finnex 500 Watt Titanium Heaters. One is using the Finnex temperature controller, which is actually quite nice. The other is controlled by the Corallife Chiller. I have one set at 72 degrees and the other set for 70 degrees.

It seems like only one heater is being used right now. I bet that I will need them both when it gets colder, but I am impressed how much a single 500 watt heater can do. Even the air temp in the greenhouse stays within 15 degrees of the water temp.

I do have a new problem to share………..Water water everywhere!!! Condensation is a MAJOR issue in the winter. I am heating the water directly in a sealed up greenhouse, so as you can imagine, the humidity stays 100%. Water is almost pouring down the walls at night. My ground fault is tripping at least once per day. This is bad because the heaters cut off. The only saving grace is that I am checking it very often, and resetting as needed.

My project today it to eliminate as many exposed sockets as possible. I may have to find a way to warm my power strip to prevent condensation on it. I could probably just put a plastic bag over it. The power flowing through it might produce enough heat to keep it warmer than the air temps.

Coral growth is still dismal. I am still testing different stuff. I probably remove the 30% shade cloth and let in some more light this winter.

[X88&94GT]

wondered where you have been and how things have been going. We wonder about Fall as well. Been rather chilly for us southerners!

[hamburglar]

I did just pull off the shade cloth. Hopefully that will give my coral growth a boost. I'll admit that I do not have a light meter, but it seemed rather bright in the summer, even with the 30% shade cloth on.

I figure winter is the best time to pull it.

I've got some new Montipora's to test out there. I will try to get them cut as soon as possible. My green montipora all turned brown out there, but did not die.

[Whaledriver]

Get some drip/covered outlets.
You might consider a chiller that kicks in at 85 degrees. Get a inexpesive chiller like Via Aqua 1/4 hp just for piece of mind. The loss of life ealier would have probly paid for it by now.

You might be able to find a farmers allminac to let you know how many layers of shade cloth to put on during differant times of the year. Just change layers based on the calander.

Great thread. It just shows it can be just as hard to do a setup at a low cost as it is for a high cost. I just wish I didnt live so far north
Goog Luck

[hamburglar]

Quick update:

Ground fault issue was resolved by wrapping a plastic grocery bag over my power strip. This keeps the ceiling from dripping on it, and the condensation off the plugs.

2 500 Watt heaters are heating well at outside temperatures just below freezing. I still reserve the right to add a third heater if needed

Montipora's that turned brown with the shade cloth are now starting to color up again. They might even turn purple because they are picking up a purple hue. I removed the shade cloth last month.

I have not been able to keep my CA/ALK levels in line by dripping kalk. It is just too much of a pain. Top off water needs fluctuate too much to rely on this method of adding CA/ALK. I mixed up a 10 gallon batch of home-made Bi-Ionic and I will start 2-part dosing today. For those of you that do not know. I have use the real Bi-Ionic indoors for years, and love it. he home-made recipie will be a big money saver, even cheaper than kalk.

Still nothing too impressive going on. At least I am getting a feel for the power consumption during the winter

[Randall_James]

Thanks for the update, post some updated photos when you can

[Whaledriver]

What recipe are you useing for your 2 part system?

[hamburglar]

Here is the recipe I'm using for the 2-part additive:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2004/chem.htm

[hamburglar]

It got wicked cold last night. Probably about 26 degrees. Both 500 watt heaters ran strong all night. Water temperature set point was 77 and the actual temperature slowely slipped down to 74 by dawn.

I don't really want to add another heater unless I have to. I am going to the home improvement store for 2 items:

1. Some styro insulation 4x8 foot sheets. I can cut these to fit over the tanks for night time use. I check on the greenhouse every evening and morning, so taking them on and off is no problem at all.

2. Large clear plastic film to completly cover the greenhouse. I might need to add extra insulation over the entire greenhouse with a clear plastic sheet. This would reduce light transmission, so I will only do it if neccessary.

I don't think that adding insulation around the tanks themselvs will be much help because each tank is actually 2 pools nested together. There is a slight gap between the pools, mostly filled with silicone and air(I dumped about 4 tubes between each pair of pools). This dual layer is providing pretty good insulation.

The biggest heat loss is the water surface, so a styrofoam cover would help a lot. I just need to remove it each morning.

I will try to do a picture update very soon, perhaps after I add the insulation.

[Randall_James]

how is condensation going ?

[rick rottet]

I had a similar problem at the beginning of the week. My furnace had a bad limit switch which was causing the burner to cycle off and on. Couldn't get the air temp up inside the greenhouse no matter how high I turned the thermostat. One of my tanks got down to 71, the other four were around 74. At the suggestion of some good people, I covered the tanks with clear plastic sheet, just to keep evap to a minimum, but this also allowed light transmission. I used some left over clear poly from the greenhouse glazing, but could use clear plastic film of any kind. Made sure all fans were off also. Eliminating evap might just be enough for you. The tank that was at 71 actually gained 2 degrees overnight after I covered them.

Oh yeah, that night my tanks dropped, it was 19 overnight. The night that the coolest tank gained 2 degrees was 1 F.

With the furnace fixed, tanks now uncovered and one fan running in addition to the furnace fan, last night was -6 and my coolest tank was 75.... 26 ain't that bad, bro. If there was a bigger volume of water, or something you could put in the greenhouse to absorb heat by solar during the day (black barrel of water), and let it radiate some heat at night, that helps too.

Your idea about the plastic over the entire greenhouse sounds beneficial, but I think (not positive) that you will need to create an air space between the plastic and the greenhouse. Otherwise, the heat would transfer out of the greenhouse the same if the plastic is touching the greenhouse.

[hamburglar]

Lucky for me, New Bern is ony about 45 minutes from the coast. We get a slight buffer from the ocean, so temps hardly ever drop under the upper teens.

I went to Lowes at lunch today. I could not find plastic sheets big enough to cover the greenhouse. I would probably need to order them from a greenhouse supply company. Not sure if I'm going to do that yet.

I did buy some 1/2 inch styrofoam panels in 4x8 sheets. I will cut them to fit over both the top pool, and the sump pool on the bottom. There will be some holes around the plumbing, but it should not matter much. The sheets should limit the air flow on the water surface and decrease evaporative cooling / heat transfer.

One cool think about these styro sheets is that there is a reflective film on one side. I will probably take some larger scrap pieces and hand them in the greenhouse to reflect more light on the corals.

Randall_James, Condensation is still causing "scattered showers" inside the greenhouse at night, but a plastic grocery bag wrapped over the power strips has stoped the ground fault issues.

I promice the pictures are coming soon

[rick rottet]

What you have will work fine, anything to limit evap in colder temps. It will also help with the condensation issue. According to what I have been told, the condensation makes the heat transfer out of the greenhouse faster than a drier wall would.

keep up the good work!

[Desert Reef Inc]

Great Thread. Looking forward to more. Good luck.

[Reefbone]

Well I just got finished reading Rick's webpage... all 20 pages ! If you havn't seen it, click his " little red house". Rick, I just can't resist being critical of one thing... the text on your page is kind of hard to read on the aqua background. You might consider changing it to all white or just creating some white text boxes. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Pretty cool greenhouses fellas. Thanks for sharing.

[Desert Reef Inc]

I would love to hear more on how it is going.
Thanks