Switching Sand?

[reef3r]

I have a 37g tank with 2-3" of special grade aragonite sand. I had about 5 inches for a jawfish but it didn't work out very well and the jawfish died, and I didn't get another one. I siphoned a little bit of the sand out, so now I have 2-3" throughout the tank. However, I would greatly prefer the finer aragonite sand for a few reasons. How would I switch over to that without harming the fish/inverts too much? The tank has been set up for about 4 months.

Current Stock:
Midas blenny
2 Sebae clowns
1 firefish

2 cleaner shrimp
3 turbo snails
6 nassarius snails
3 trochus snails
5 nerite snails
4 cerith snails
5 astrea snails
5 scarlet hermits
4 white tip hermits
1 fighting conch

[o.c.d.]

Never tried it but gravel cleaner to suck it up then cover base remove, repeat prosess. Make sure you have your replacement water ready. Ive added sand with plastic bags sink cut method and it does keep sediment down.

[meco65]

Take the fish and LR and any inverts you may have put into another container with all the tank water, power heads and heater. Take out old sand and clean tank, rinse the new sand very well to get as much of the dust out as you can. put new sand, and LR back in tank and most of the old water let tank settle for a while than put fish and inverts back. That is how I did mine when I changed out my CC worked great for me..

[reef3r]

So I just siphon most of it out, wash out the new sand really well (with tap water??) and then put it in the tank?

[reef3r]

Nevermind we posted at the same time.

How long did it take, meco?

[reef3r]

And can I wash out the new sand with tap water?

[meco65]

Thats how I did mine and It worked very well. You will want to make up some extra SW for water changes just in case you need it. And you may want to cut the feedings to 1 every two days for a few days to let the bio-filter catch back up.

[meco65]

It may just be me but I cleaned my new sand in tap water out side in 5gal buckets, and the water hose. about 5 lbs of sand at a time.

[reef3r]

So let me make sure I understand:
1. Catch all fish/inverts/LR and put them into a separate container w/ a heater and powerhead
2. Take out old sand
3. Make sure new sand is thoroughly rinsed and put it in LR and new sand
4. Let tank settle a while
5. Put the rest of the livestock back in.
6. Cut back on feeding to make sure I don't get a minicycle or somthing like that.

[Mavrk]

I think the key here is slow. There is a lot of bacteria in the sand. If you remove it too quickly your tank could crash. You need to have time for the LR to take up the slack.

Here is my opinion on what to do:

Remove the old sand slowly (like over a few weeks time). Then add new non-live sand and a little live sand on top. The reason not to put live sand on bottom is that it could result in some die off.

[reef3r]

Now I'm confused. If there is so much bacteria in the sand, then how do people successfully have barebottom tanks?

[meco65]

If you wash the sand and have it ready that would help. (Mavrk) the only problem with the slow removal of the sand is, the tank has been running for about 5 months and it has a lot of bad gunk in it. If the bed is in to bad of shape when you disturb it, it will release all of the gunk back into the water and can cause a bad spike. IMO.

[o.c.d.]

Pulling everthing sound painful stressful Id do a little test first siphion a small area out wait test water watch for blooms of algae. then repeat.Unless your in a hurry. After 6 years I cleaned my sand bed in 6" by 6" areas every 2 weeks Ya it took a while but no problems.Same rule applies on disterbing a SB , not supposto do alot of That but some diserbance is essential thats why we employ sandsifting critters. JustMO No Diss intended meco

[reef3r]

So if I take out a very small layer at a time, very carefully and without really disturbing anything, would it be okay?

[Mavrk]

Originally posted by reef3r
Now I'm confused. If there is so much bacteria in the sand, then how do people successfully have barebottom tanks?

Because they start with bare bottom. The amount of bacteria in a tank is controlled by the bioload. If you have sand and rock, then the bacteria will be dispersed in both. If you have just rock, then it will all be in the rock. Currently you have sand, so a lot of the bacteria lives in there too. If you remove the sand, then there will not be enough bacteria to handle your bioload. Like I said before, eventually the LR will be populated enough to handle the bioload.

[o.c.d.]

I wouldn't layer start maybe 4"by4" sections right to bottem even 3by3 then no problems try little more ect. Your sandbed probably isn't that dirty depending on flow in the tank,how much you feed ,scavengers ect.Test is the essential word.

[Mavrk]

Originally posted by meco65
(Mavrk) the only problem with the slow removal of the sand is, the tank has been running for about 5 months and it has a lot of bad gunk in it. If the bed is in to bad of shape when you disturb it, it will release all of the gunk back into the water and can cause a bad spike. IMO.

That is why I said to remove slowly. That way anything built up in the SB can release in a small amount without hurting the inhabitants.

I think Meco's method of removing the inhabitants would work as well. It is just like when you move a tank. The one thing to realize is that whatever you put your critters in, they need to be able to stay there for the cycle that will happen if you use this method. Yes, it should be pretty short since your rock is cured. Just expect them to be in there at least a few days then add them slowly as if it were a new tank. Let us know what you decide.

[reef3r]

I think I'm going to remove it slowly. But I'm still a little confused. Should I take it all out (over a few weeks) before I add the new sand, or should I take out a small section and replace it with new sand immediately. Also do I go by layers or one spot at a time? If it's one spot at a time, how big of a spot should it be?

[o.c.d.]

I'd take out sections 3inches by 3inches not layers, If you use some sort of barrier so the new and old sand don't mix ,after 30% has been removed add some new. If you have trouble keeping the sand seperated then remove more.
I'm curious to know what the few reasons are for wanting to remove the sand?

[reef3r]

In no particular order:

1st is because I definately like the look of fine sand better
2nd is because I'm considering getting a burrowing fish
3rd is because I think food gets caught in this kind of sand too easily
4th I think I have too much (not enough for a DSB, too much to look good)
5th is because it's easier to clean finer sand
6th is because I have some extra.

[o.c.d.]

You can also mix fine sand on top as it settles it will fill the spaces between the larger grain. According to Dr Ron Shimek's artical in Coral mag the use of different sized grain helps create a diverse sand bed flora.A filter with uniform grain size tends to limit the populition of certain species.
your 3rd reason your right,4th also right but adding would solve5th you should not be cleaning your sandbed when you vac (assume thats your cleaning method)your disterbing it and thats not benifical for this filtering method. minor movement to prevent water challening and dead spots.Manualy it can be done or you can employ various critters. IMO

[meco65]

However no mater how you decide to do the change keep a close eye on the tank for a spike.

[Mavrk]

Sections, not layers. If you can add them at the same time, that would be great. You would have to have some kind of barrier to do this or it will just mix together.

[alfieferenzo84]

i had 5 inches of sand i removed it all in about a hr with the fish and inverts all in tank, then i washed what i wanted to keep in a 5 gal bucket with tap water but i also did it in the shower so it would be warm if it is not warm then find a way to do that as it will afect tank temp, then i just added the sand little by little over a 2hr period and everything was fine

i did get ammonia reading of .25 for 1 day then it was gone!

that is my experence in changing sand good luck!

[reef3r]

Okay I don't think I'll need to keep it divided, I don't need ALL of the sand removed. So I will leave everything in the tank and remove it all slowly, over a few weeks. Thanks for the help, everyone.