Ats

[EricHugo]

Mark covered my answer just fine - I don't know how chemicals released from animals would play into the turf, although for sure soft corals do release some compounds that are algicidal, so that couldn't be good for it.

[piercho]

Can anyone provide tha volume and number of the TFA article by Eric? Also, the article title would be very helpful. I'm having to go to the UW periodical desk to get this sent to my and their on-line catalog is not too helpful for periodicals.

Thanks.

[LiquidShaneo]

piercho: No idea. All I know is that it's in The Fish Hobbyist, March, 2000. Title: ATS in Action: One Year with an Algae Turf Scubber by Eric Borneman.


FYI: not sure if everyone's seen this or not but this is the webpage for Adey at the Smithsonian: http://www.apapets.com/MarineEcosystem/index.html

Shane
(aka "liquid")

[Flatlander]

Shane, not sure what the operational weight will be, but its pretty heavy. Shipping weight was almost 50lbs.

[LiquidShaneo]

Hey Eric, why did you remove your ATS from your 40 gal tank anyhow?

Shane

[EricHugo]

It reads Volume XLVIII Number 7 #528

Shane, I took it down because it was during a period where I had at least two tanks in every room of the house and taking care fo them all was driving me batty - couldn't enjoy any of them, and the system itself was (intentionally) a hodge podge of life. I combined systems and gave away a lot of stuff. I put the ATS back onto another tank later, but only because it was a holding tank that held remnants from my 1999 tank disasters while in Australia...that tank had no real purpose, and unfortunately because this was when the ATS was working at its best. I lost the motivation to do a new type habitat, and just took it down until I decided to set up something where I could again use it. I guess the reason I haven;t is because it isn;t a large unit and I don;t really want to run a smallish tank anymore. Couple this with the fact that I am really rather fond of just running a closed system without any "filtration" - to me, its just another thing to mess with and my water quality is already very high without it or skimmers or anything, so the question for me becomes, what, where, when and ...why?

[piercho]

I've been unable to hunt down Eric's article in the Seattle Area - that includes the U of W library. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm putting a surge on my tank and I'd like to incorporate an ATS in the design. The surge will dump into the ATS, then flow into the main tank. I have a few questions I hope you quys will be kind enough to answer.

1)Is 6500k PC at about 5" from the algae screen adequit intensity to support growth of the desired type of algaes?

2)Is there a rule of thumb relating tank load or tank volume to the area of screen needed?

3)Is there a rule of thumb for frequency of surges to optimize ATS performance?

4)Is the screen suppose to be in air between surges, or remain submerged?

Right now I'm planning to put a 32W PC over a 18G tub with a 18"X 12" ATS in it. 3.5G surges will pass through the tub every 30 seconds. This will help support a 65G main tank with a DSB. I'm trying to avoid a skimmer on this "lagoonal" system, but I haven't been able to get control over my nitrogen (and DOM, in general) so far with just the DSB. It is a new system.

Any input would be appreciated.

[caevan]

piercho,
A colour temperature of around 4000K is better suited to promoting algal growth in a scrubber.
I currently use 4000k 175w MH bulb over my scrubber. Also from my readings higher intensity light is important. Remember you are trying to create an optimal environment for growing algae, and encouraging it to grow on the scrubber rather than in your tank.
"Dynamic Aquaria" give a rough guide as to the scrubber area to tank volume. From memory he as an 0.18m sq (metric) for his 120g home reef. I use a 18 inch by 10 inch mat for my 50g tank.
I do not think contact with air is important, though my scrubber is a dump bucket design there is alway a small amount of water covering the algae. What is of greater importance is getting the to and fro movement of the algae

[piercho]

Thanks Caevan!

[Snailman]

Size was my bigest question. The InlandAquatics units used 1 square inch per gallon of tank size (100 & 250 gal units). www.algaeturfscrubber.com uses 1.4 sq in/gal in the small unit(90 gal), .69 sq in/gal in the mid unit (400 gal) and .56 sq in/gal in the big unit (3000 gal). this all makes it about as clear as Dynamic Aquaria.

[caevan]

Snailman,
I can understand the confusion, when I built my ATS I only had Dynamic Aquaria vol 1 as a guide and used the are quoted for the 120g home tank and scaled it down.
If I was to build one again I think I would follow the same approach, since it worked well for me.
I would say rather than tank volume one of the major factors influencing total are would be the tank load.
You could compensate for an undersized scrubber by farming it more often, though from memory Dr Adey does tank about how to determine if the scrubber is to large for the tank, but I would have to reread the chapter to remember exactly what he said.

[cwa46]

Fredfish,

I have been running a homemade ATS for about 8 months. It is essentially what you are describing. It is under the tank(basement) and surges into the sump. It is not a dump bucket, but a stationary screen with variable water levels. I get 4-8 ounces of wet algae per weekly scraping. You can see the ATS at my web site.
With an ATS and a refugiumand DSB, I can feed very heavily.

[Fredfish]

cwa46,

Thanks for the link. Thats an innovative design you have.

My tank and sump are in the livingroom so noise is a big issue (no noisy slurping while my spouses favourite show is on ). I'm stumped right now as I think that all surge devices will probably make more noise than the family finds acceptable.

I suspect that the algae dump bucket that Adey uses will be the most quiet, IF I can figure out a way to get water into the bucket without a lot of splashing.

I will probably move my sump into the basement once I can afford a larger pump!

Fred.

[MarkS]

Am I the only one who is outraged by their agreement? Imagine what would have happened if the creator of the protein skimmer had decided to do that! It's just a filter for God's sake! How does using this filter and selling corals out of the tank in any way warrent them collecting money from the sale of the corals? What harm does it do for me to use on a tank 3000 gallons or more? Why would they NOT want it used on a public aquarium? How can they honestly think that by doing any of this you suddenly owe THEM money?

And then I noticed that little disclaimer at the bottom of each page. They trademarked the words "refuge" and "refugium"! I wonder if they have gone after any authors or makers of refugiums for violating their trademark? Really sad.

I would not purchase one of their filters, even if I was impressed with it. I would just DIY. I would never buy from a company that would do this to it's customers. I mean, what if I happened to open a LFS in the future? By God, I would not pay them a dime!

Anyway, off of my soapbox and back to your regularly scheduled program...

Mark

[Flatlander]

[MarkS]

Uh... yeah...

[LiquidShaneo]

Mark: How's the tank looking with the ATS100 on it? Any update?

Shane (aka "liquid")

[Mark]

Originally posted by LiquidShaneo
Mark: How's the tank looking with the ATS100 on it? Any update?

Shane (aka "liquid")

Well,

It's kinda weird. I've been battling this red stuff in both tanks for months now. In the 75 gallon reef, I noticed that is affected the growth of my macroalgae. Now, in the 38 gallon ats system, the turfs haven't spread after 2 weeks. Inland said it only takes a week. Last night, I took out all the rocks and scrubbed off as much of the red stuff as I could. I'm now leaving the tank dark for 4 days, but keeping the scrubber on it's normal light cycle. Hopefully this will give the turf a kickstart while the red stuff withers away. I was originally hoping that the ATS would simply outcompete the red algae, but that didn't happen. Again, I wonder if the red stuff is using chemical competition to inhibit the growth of other algae. Just a thought. Keep in mind that this appears to be the same algae that drove Sanjay to tear down his tank, bleach it, and start over. I'm desperately trying to avoid that scenario.

I did the same scrubbing-rocks thing to the 75, without the dark phase. I also added some Mexican Turbos, which Carlos recommended. The prognosis on the 75 is good, and the macroalgae are gaining their foothold. The turbos actually seem to like this red stuff as well.

So, that's the long drawn out story. I also received some biotrace this weekend, and will begin dosing it.

[LiquidShaneo]

You got a pic of this "red stuff"? Is it kinda bubbly and grows all over your macroalgaes? I've got some issues with a red microalgae that's currently growing on top of my macro's too and from the looks of it, it's also out competing my macro's...

Also, what is "biotrace"?

Shane
(aka "liquid")

[Mark]

Check out the long-winded thread title Algae ID by Edsreef in Eric's forum:

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...5&pagenumber=2

It's a sporophytic stage of a more fleshy algae. It resembles red cotton. Sanjay has pics of it on his site here:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...gae/algae1.jpg

Here's a link showing the sporophyte and gametophyte phase:

http://www.uog.edu/classes/botany/Ma...paragopsis.htm


I hope for your sake, that you do not have it. If you do, it seems turbos will actually graze the stuff.

Biotrace is a trace element supplement that Inland recommends to help kickstart the algae. The contents seem to be a mix of a variety of things including strontium, vitamin c, and other stuff. Kinda like a combisan, but the biotrace actually seems to have stuff in it. Well.. at least it has color to it(combisan not only was water, but it looked like water.) The only place I could find it online was:

http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro..._elements.html


Sigh...I miss the days my tanks ran like they were on Autopilot.
I'm sure other online retailers carry it, but a quick search only turned up this site. The 32 oz. is pretty big, which is what I ordered.

[LiquidShaneo]

Whew. Nope, that's not the same stuff that I have. Hope you get yours under control soon... Man, that sux...

Shane

[Diatom2]

You guys are killing me!! I just got my refugium set up now I gotta figure out how to build a Surge/ATS.

Hey Eric I'll take your old ATS off your hands for you, you don't want that dirty old thing sitting around your place anyway do you? Aren't I a generous. *lol*

[Flatlander]

Thats what makes it fun. My wife says I keep aquariums just so I can always switch things around & buy new thingys.

When we use to RV on vacation, I always came back from Minnesota, with the 5-th wheel full of aquarium goodies.

[Mark]

LOL,

I'm with you Doug! I love to tinker with new gadgets. You should see the variety of skimmers in my closet!

[Flatlander]

Although the reason I am going to install the ATS, is to make it more simple. As I once said, I wish to use it as my only outside source of filtration and water flow,[ after Eric,s suggestion].

This will eliminate the sump, return pump, skimmer, hoses &pipes,[], 5 powerheads, my Kold Sterile, etc.

I just need to purchase a new reactor, as mine sits in the sump and with the tank being covered, there will not be enough evaporation for kalk.