Ca Reactor Question for Bill Wann or Spazz

hsvtoolfool · #1 06/07/2006, 08:28 PM

I don't think was ever described in other threads, so I'm still
extremely curious how this "thingy" at the top of Bill's DIY
Ca-Reactor works...

Sorry if this was discussed earlier and I missed it. Thanks!

r3tic · #2 06/07/2006, 08:52 PM

you pretty much have it, The inner sleve is a shield that prevents the CO2 bubbles from going out with the effluent. The disk makes sure the bubbles don't go into the holes

Gem Tang Rider · #3 06/07/2006, 08:56 PM

And what happened to that skimmer thread anyway?

cres · #4 06/07/2006, 09:37 PM

I don't "know" what happened to the thread (just looked for it myself -- I've got to remember to bookmark the good threads).

I do remember that Bill mentioned a "price" for his "work". This may have qualified him as "Commercial" and subject to ejection. JMO.

Gem Tang Rider · #5 06/07/2006, 09:42 PM

I think they (the mods) pulled the whole thread.
Too bad, I was getting some really good ideas for my project.
You can't post prices, & usually the mods give warning first.

cres · #6 06/07/2006, 09:48 PM

Ah, and to hsvtoolfool's initial question, I think you have the CO2 lines right, but, the center is the effluent (water out).

The disk might be overkill (I don't know), but, probably kills turbulence in the top. CO2 bubbles rise along the taper and straight up past the center tube. It can collect in the top before getting pulled in the pump's intake. Other's had indicated that it resembles Schurans design.

Bill Wann · #7 06/07/2006, 09:59 PM

Yep , they chucked my thread ,I guess if you build them and explain how to make them so everyone else can too than thats commerical .
Who knows . You got the top pretty close to right . The tube in the middle is where the water goes back to the tank . The disk stopd co2 bubbels fro going right up it and th ehols in the bottom of the tube allow th eexcess co2 to build up so it can be recycled , hope this makes sense , Iam bad at explaing things .

H20ENG · #8 06/07/2006, 10:15 PM

Bill,
Do you use metric to inch conversion fittings on your Eheim recirc pump? Where do you get them?
Thanks!

Bill Wann · #9 06/07/2006, 10:22 PM

I just use regular npt fittings , put a little silicone on th ethreads and thats all you need . They fit nice with no leaks .

hsvtoolfool · #10 06/07/2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Wann
I guess if you build them and explain how to make them so everyone else can too than thats commerical.

I'm sure it was all the BUY-It-Yourself people wanting to
contact you and discuss payment plans. They definitely are
missing the whole point to the DIY forum.

Quote:

You got the top pretty close to right.

Thank you, Sir! Here's a corrected sketch...

Bill Wann · #11 06/07/2006, 11:07 PM

Yep thats it , just route th eco2 recycle line to the pump intank and you have . Pretty simple .

H20ENG · #12 06/07/2006, 11:14 PM

So you bubble the Co2 into the top of the reactor, not into the intake of the pump? I know that the water will still drop in pH without the pump diffusion, but it seems the best place to dissolve it quickly.
Seems then that you could just tee into the CO2 recirc line and not have to go into the top of the unit.

marine_freak · #13 06/08/2006, 06:42 AM

Wow censorship in action...... That thread was really good!

gobygoby · #14 06/08/2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Wann
Yep , they chucked my thread ,I guess if you build them and explain how to make them so everyone else can too than thats commerical .

dang! another one bites the dust

Anemone · #15 06/08/2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Wann
Yep , they chucked my thread ,I guess if you build them and explain how to make them so everyone else can too than thats commerical.

No, if you build them and sell them and take orders to build more to sell, THAT'S commercial....

Kevin

Gem Tang Rider · #16 06/08/2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by H20ENG
Seems then that you could just tee into the CO2 recirc line and not have to go into the top of the unit.

Thats what I thought too. I was going to T the CO2 input & CO2 recirculation line to the input of the pump.
The only problem I see with the CO2 going to the input of the pump, is the venturi action trying to suck the CO2 out from the bottle. That could make control of the bubbles in the counter hard to deal with. Could this be a problem?

Maybe the CO2 recirc line should go to the inlet of the pump & the CO2 from the bottle should go to the outlet side of the pump.

Sanjay · #17 06/08/2006, 10:46 AM

Inspired by design feature of recapturing some of the CO2 to make the reactor more efficient, but without making extensive mods to my existing one, I'd like to get some feedback as wether this will provide the same functionality without introducing any problems.

In fact in the modified design, another mod would be to inject the CO2 directly into the chamber from top, remove the old and new CO2 from the top and direct that into the intake of the pump. This would even eliminate the need for a bubble counter, by injecting the CO2 below the water line.

sanjay.

AcroSteve · #18 06/08/2006, 11:19 AM

I suppose, the very top of the reactor acts like the tee. I think the overall look is cleaner this way.

Silicone · #19 06/08/2006, 03:23 PM

Sanjay

Your modified design will work better than the older one, the loose gas bubbles in the reactor will naturally find their way up to the highest point in the reactor - your older design with the effluent on the highest point of the reactor probably allowed a lot of gas to escape with the reactor output.

If you could replace the top of the reactor with a cone shape then you could improve it a bit more again, I would imagine with a large flat reactor top and a lot of c02 input you could end up with a small gas pocket at the top of the reactor.

JMO

GlassReef · #20 06/08/2006, 03:28 PM

I'm having trouble understanding the functionality here - would someone clear something up for me? If the whole purpose of the CO2 shield is to prevent CO2 from entering the small holes which lead to the effluent fitting, why is new CO2 being injected just above those holes? Wouldn't that result in CO2 mixing with the effluent? Sorry for being so dense

Sanjay · #21 06/08/2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silicone
Sanjay

Your modified design will work better than the older one, the loose gas bubbles in the reactor will naturally find their way up to the highest point in the reactor - your older design with the effluent on the highest point of the reactor probably allowed a lot of gas to escape with the reactor output.

If you could replace the top of the reactor with a cone shape then you could improve it a bit more again, I would imagine with a large flat reactor top and a lot of c02 input you could end up with a small gas pocket at the top of the reactor.

JMO

yes, I realise I could change the top to a cone.. but I am trying to minimize the "work" and looking for effective mods to an exisiting model.

The gas/air pocket was one of my concerns too..and it could in some scenario cause the circulation pump to run dry. this could happen in the scenario that the water input to the reactor is cut off, and the CO2 is still being injected leading to the formation of a gas pocket that could cause the pump to run dry. this is always been one of the criticisms of the the bottom up flow design.

In my exisiting design, there is some loss of CO2 but there is less risk of the recirculation pump running dry.

sanjay.

Gem Tang Rider · #22 06/08/2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sanjay

The gas/air pocket was one of my concerns too..and it could in some scenario cause the circulation pump to run dry. this could happen in the scenario that the water input to the reactor is cut off, and the CO2 is still being injected leading to the formation of a gas pocket that could cause the pump to run dry. this is always been one of the criticisms of the the bottom up flow design.
sanjay.

If you are running a solenoid valve on your CO2 bottle, that will cut off the CO2 in the event of a power loss. Also If you look at Bill's design, the CO2 will escape from the effluent line before the gas gets to the intake of the pump.

hsvtoolfool · #23 06/08/2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GlassReef
...why is new CO2 being injected just above those holes? Wouldn't that result in CO2 mixing with the effluent?

Gas rises in a denser matter like water.

That inner "sleeve" separating the effluent output is glued to
the top of the reactor. C02 bubbles can't escape at the top
near the effluent output. Rinsing bubbles must find those little
holes near the bottom of the sleeve, which is unlikely.

A pocket of CO2 may form at the top of the reactor, but it can't
reach the effluent output due to the inner sleeve. And the C02
recirculation line (on the right in my diagram) goes to the pump's
venturi which constantly sucks the pocket of C02 into the pump.
The C02 is returned to the bottom of the reactor and mixed into solution.

Of course, a few micro-bubbles of C02 will find their way into the
inner sleeve via those small holes. So what? The C02 will quickly
de-gas in your sump. The whole idea with the recirculation of C02
is to minimize overall C02 usage. There's no harm if some C02
escapes in the effluent to your sump. You'll just have to refill your
C02 bottle more often.

Bill Wann · #24 06/08/2006, 08:02 PM

Thats a nice drawing , can I brorrow that some time.

Bill

Sanjay · #25 06/08/2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prugs
If you are running a solenoid valve on your CO2 bottle, that will cut off the CO2 in the event of a power loss. Also If you look at Bill's design, the CO2 will escape from the effluent line before the gas gets to the intake of the pump.

Good point. So if I just lower the intake to the circlulation and inject the Co2 and draw it from the top.. it should have the same effect without the cone.

sanjay.