experience on fresh water dip duration

[Cliff]

What¡¦s everyone¡¦s experience on fresh water dip?

I would like to share success or failure stories on fresh water dipping new additions before introducing into you tank. I recently had a Naso tang died from a 5 minute fresh water dip. But two anthias survived 10 minutes and 5 minute fresh water dip without problem. So here is my recent experience:

Naso tang ¡V died after 5 minute dip
Lyretail anthia ¡V looked stressed after 5 minute dip, but turned out fine
Dispar anthia ¡V fine after 10 minute dip, very healthy
Yellow tang ¡V died after 10 minute dip (accidental)
Flame angel ¡V fine after 5 minute dip

Fresh water is RO, identical temperature, PH difference is within 0.8 (in hgind sight, I probably should have matched the ph closer)

Fish go into quarantine after dip in AP24 mini reef tank.

What I would like to find out from people's experience is which fish is more vulnerable to fresh water dip?

[sharkbait993]

I have yet to lose a fish to dip. I only dip 5 min with fresh water/Myth Blue. I have dipped the following fish:

1. 4 False Percula Clowns. Did fine.
2. Coral Beauty. Did fine.
3. 2 Fire fish. were stressed and took a bit to recover. No issues.
4. 1 Banner fish. Did fine.
5. 2 Dragonettes (Scooter Blennies), bot were stressed but then fine.
6. 5 Psueo Chromis. Did fine.

All of these fish were disease free their entire lives. They were all quarantined for 4 weeks ina 20 gal fowlr tank. I made the mistake once on just dropping a fire fish into my 100 gal reef tank straight from the store. Wiped out my entire tank with Ich!!!
Dip and quarantine! I would rather lose one to stress here and there than my entire tank!

[adtravels]

I have done 5 to 15 min dips with ph adjusted fw, most of the fish loose mucus and generally seem to have ragged fins for a day or two, long term I dont think it does harm, but I would not do it with weak fish or stressed fish hypo is better taking the sg down slowly.

[ReefTeacher]

I have had varying experiences over the years. Weak fish often do not make it, but maybe they would have died anyway. I think body size has a lot to do with it, but it is not the whole story either.

I recently got a nice Achiles tang for a good price. My quaranteen is small and they like to roam, so I decided (stupidly) to freshwater dip and place in the display with both macro and micro algae for grazing. The tang went into shock within a minute, completely stopped breathing. So I rushed him into the display. He introduced ick and I had almost a complete wipeout. (one fish survived).

So with more delicate fish I am taking a new route, one I read in an article in FAMA sometime in the 80's. I set up 2 10-gal tanks with sterile saltwater. I introduce the new fish into one tank with a shot of Amquel. I leave him there 3 days...so ammonia is not too much of a problem if I feed sparingly. After 3-days he goes to the other sterile tank...and the first one gets a dose of bleach to kill anything. I let the bleach run in the tank for a day, clean it out, let it dry and set it up sterile on the third day. Going back and forth between the two tanks uses the natural life cycle of ick to rid the fish of the parasite. I find in 3 cycles (9-days) viturally all fish are ick free. Then we can start a normal quaranteen. I know it will not get rid of other diseases...but it seems like every fish I buy locally is infected with ick, and it is a major problem for me. This method seems much less stressful than a FW dip. I have used it with angels and butterflies with great success.

[eskymick]

For years, I've always done a FW dip when I first acquire a fish. In most cases it seemed to be a bit stressful on the animal.

As of late, instead of a FW dip, I've been using a Formalin saltwater bath. I think it accomplishes the same thing as a FW dip, but it is less stressful on the fish. I use 15 drops of Formalin per gallon of saltwater ... for 30-60 minutes.

[hybridgenius]

My fish do well in freshwater dip and I dip them for 30mins. Depends on the disease or parasite too on what I would add to the dip.

[zemuron114]

i dip everything from christmas island and marshalls before i put them into my system. everything is dipped for a minimum of 5 minutes. i actually left a flame angel in freshwater for over an hour once. came down and he was still swimming around like nothing was wrong!

things that i've noticed that dont like freshwater dipping:

mystery wrasses
fairy wrasses (lineatus, flame, rhomboid, laboutei, balteatus)
anthias
small tangs (yellow, black, blue mainly)

[01saleen]

I only tried it once, it really stresses the fish, and actually caused more problems. I will never do it a again and i also would never suggest it as a remedy either.

[stevensun]

Just a thought, the stress might be from the difference in the temperature or PH if they are not correctly adjusted.

[sundancer]

Are you guys watching your fish during the dip? You need to sit there and watch them for the full duration of the dip. They don't just roll over and croak. If freshwater is stressing them they will let you know one way or another. Most often they will try to jump out of the dip container or keep hitting the sides trying to break out or just lay on their sides and pant. Wait no time taking them out if you see any signs of distress. Have a second container with QT saltwater ready to reveive the fish in case the FW does not work out. I tried to dip a mystery wrasse once. As soon as he hit the water he came back out like a missile and hit me right in the eyeball. It happened so fast I didn't have time to blink.

[sundancer]

Also it helps to have a small heater and a bubbler in the container. One gallon of water can get cold fast especially in winter. With a bubbler it cools even faster. Cold water is very stressful to fish. Sometimes I put one container inside another and while the fish is being dipped I pour some warm water from the sink into the big bucket. And keep a lid on it.

[Cliff]

So far, people¡¦s experience seemed to point the vulnerable species to include:

Tangs
Wrasses
Anthias

Flame angle dipped in FW for 1 hour? No wonder my flame angle looked kinda cozy the 5 minutes sitting in FW.

ReefTeacher, the method you described sounds similar to a method that I read somewhere online called the transfer method. The method interrupts the reproductive cycle of the parasite by moving the host fish to new columns of water frequently to prevent/reduce re-infestation.

Hybridgenius, can you list the names of the fishes you dipped for 30 minutes? That will help people identify the acceptable candidates for dipping.

Temperature is relatively easy to match, how about the difference in PH? Does anyone have info on sudden PH change do to fish?

[jmaneyapanda]

Originally posted by zemuron114
i dip everything from christmas island and marshalls before i put them into my system. everything is dipped for a minimum of 5 minutes. i actually left a flame angel in freshwater for over an hour once. came down and he was still swimming around like nothing was wrong!

things that i've noticed that dont like freshwater dipping:

mystery wrasses
fairy wrasses (lineatus, flame, rhomboid, laboutei, balteatus)
anthias
small tangs (yellow, black, blue mainly)

Same here. I was dipping a clown with brook once, and was watching closely. I wanted to leave it in as long as possible, so just watched for signs of distress. 90 minutes later, I got tired of watching so put her back in the tank. BTW, FW wasnt effective completely for brook. I needed to formalin dip too. Now, *that* is stressful to fish.

[SDguy]

I've done anthias for 10 min in pH and temp adjusted FW. They were quite stressed, but survived. Not sure I like doing it on freshly shipped fish....

[sundancer]

That's right. I never dip fish straight out of the shipping bag. these fish are already stressed. Dips can just push them over the brink if they are sick. Acclimate them into the QT first. I also have been dipping/acclimating my fish while they are asleep. They seem to do better this way. If I do it right they don't even wake up. Next morning they are non the wise.

[jmaneyapanda]

Originally posted by sundancer
That's right. I never dip fish straight out of the shipping bag. these fish are already stressed. Dips can just push them over the brink if they are sick. Acclimate them into the QT first. I also have been dipping/acclimating my fish while they are asleep. They seem to do better this way. If I do it right they don't even wake up. Next morning they are non the wise.

agreed. I even object to prophyalctic freshwater dipping. I know many people who run hypo or dip for no reason whatsoever. I think it is a safe(r) treatment as compared to others, but without a doubt will stress the fish to some degree. I chronically get articles thrown back at me which make claims that it is "easier" on the fish, and allows them to metabloize better. And all the refernces for these "articles" are based on brackish fish, or even freshwater species! I have YET to see an article with tangible evidence which shows a reef dwelling species of teleost showing a measurable and noticeable benefit to hyposaline conditions as compared to NSW conditions.

[zemuron114]

i dip for one reason - flukes. flukes are very prevalent in christmas and sometimes marshall island fish when they come in. The christmas island flight from HI is 5 hours and marshalls is slightly longer. There is no ill effect dipping them right after acclimation. In many cases (for me anyways) it helps them because of some diseases/flukes etc they may end up coming in with. Bartletts hate freshwater. they will tweak out for about 2 seconds and then flip upside down. if you poke them and watch them they will last the 5 minutes but they will hate every second of it

[hypermikie]

I've only FW dipped one fish.
I dipped a True Perc for 7 mins and had success.

[tmz]

I prefer the formalin bath for fifty minutw. I drip acclaimate and add more tank water and a small powerhaead to a buckett. After the bath the fish goes into qt for observation and treatment with prazipro or copper as needed.

[sundancer]

I do the formalin bath,too. I do the bath right after the FW dip after the fish has completed QT and before acclimating to the display. Since the fish is now healthy and strong the FW dip and 50 min. Formalin bath is just added insurance and I know the procedure will have no negative effect on the fish. I do this while they sleep. When they wake up the next morning it's" Holy sh-t! Where the heck am I and where is my PVC elbow??"

[jmaneyapanda]

50 minutes?!! How much formalin are you using? Formalin is 37% formaldehyde- the stuff they preserve biological specimens in because NOTHING can live through it. It is nasty stuff. I formalin dip for like 5 minutes, but only when absolutely necessary. You're kidding yourself if you think your fish will sleep through this procedure. Maybe sleep permanently.

[tmz]

Originally posted by jmaneyapanda
50 minutes?!! How much formalin are you using? Formalin is 37% formaldehyde- the stuff they preserve biological specimens in because NOTHING can live through it. It is nasty stuff. I formalin dip for like 5 minutes, but only when absolutely necessary. You're kidding yourself if you think your fish will sleep through this procedure. Maybe sleep permanently.

I use the 3% solution(Kordon Formalin.3) at the manufacturer's recommended dose(2tsps per gallon) for a 50 minute bath or 1 tsp per 10 gallons for 24 hour tank treatment. If I was using the 37% solution I would use 1/12th of those amounts.
There have never been any problems nor signs of stress nor flukes etc.

How much do you use for the 5 minute version and where can I find a written recommendation for that protocol?

[cthetoy]

Originally posted by Cliff
What¡¦s everyone¡¦s experience on fresh water dip?

Fresh water is RO, identical temperature, PH difference is within 0.8 (in hgind sight, I probably should have matched the ph closer)

What I would like to find out from people's experience is which fish is more vulnerable to fresh water dip?

0.8 difference for pH is alot which can stress the fish alot. What did you add to make you pH higher or lower? I use kalkwasser to make my pH higher iand Vinegar to go lower.

I FW water dipped 3 yellow tangs, a naso and a moorish idol for 30 minutes with no problems. I dip fish for 5 minutes and 10 minutes if I see flukes.

Also when raising your pH in your RO water measure it after 15-20 minutes. I thought I got my pH equal to my quarantine tank and after I dipped the fish my pH was 9.0 in the freshwater!! Now I let the water sit for a while before I dip the fish

[eskymick]

Originally posted by jmaneyapanda
50 minutes?!! How much formalin are you using? Formalin is 37% formaldehyde- the stuff they preserve biological specimens in because NOTHING can live through it. It is nasty stuff. I formalin dip for like 5 minutes, but only when absolutely necessary. You're kidding yourself if you think your fish will sleep through this procedure. Maybe sleep permanently.

I use Formalin ... 15 drops per gallon for 30 - 60 minutes in well-aerated saltwater. I've never had a fish become even slightly stressed. I feel it's less stressful and at least as effective as a FW bath for killing external parasites such as flukes and trematodes.

My quarantine procedure:
1. Formalin bath after fish is acclimated to quarantine tank
2. Place in quarantine for 4 weeks for observation
3. After the first 24 hours, treat with PraziPro
4. After 5 days, repeat PraziPro
5. Continue observation for 4 weeks
6. If all is well, place in display tank

I do not treat with hypo or copper unless necessary.

After four weeks, a healthy fish is feeding well, and generally accustomed to my presence.

One week prior to introduction to the display, I tape a cut-out picture of the new fish to the glass of the display tank. When the new fish goes in, the current occupants already "know" him.

[zemuron114]

trematodes are internal parasites and a formalin bath will have no effect on them. Prazi pro is great for killing trematodes or internal parasites - just soak the food in it.

Im lucky since Hawaii tap water is the best in the country and has a 8.1 PH, so all i do is drip acclimate for an hour, then freshwater dip for 5-10 minutes.

eskymick - that is an interesting idea of the cut out. Im curious if this actually works or not, does anyone else do this??