Budget Greenhouse Project - Page 6

hamburglar · #**126** 03/14/2006, 01:20 PM

I have met another local coral farmer with the same problem. he has a a system with SPS only. He has recently installed 20,000K 400Watt Halides. I will report on his changes as soon as he shares the information with me. He would probably share his info on Reef Central but he keeps getting banned fro the site. I guess he bumps heads with the wrong people. Dag on shame since he had lots of experience, and 30 to 40 thousand dollars in his greenhouse.

I have a few Zoanthids (handfull), Xenia, finger leathers, and mushroom in the same system. All of these corals came from my indoor system where they live well together.

I'm still on my business trip in freaking California. I can't wait to get home and hang my halide. Everything should be there and waiting on me. I will try to get it done this weekend.

rustybucket145 · #**127** 03/14/2006, 01:29 PM

Well Good Luck, I hope the halides work out for you and the SPS. So all the softies are doing well in the greenhouse? Good growth/color?

Wonder if the Greenhouse panels are blocking out a certain spectrum/color of light that promotes coloration in SPS's?

hamburglar · #**128** 03/15/2006, 01:47 AM

I wonder about the polycarb also. Softies do quite well. I will post results after a little while. This thread will be updated for at least another year.

pvtschultz · #**129** 03/17/2006, 06:18 PM

First off, you are a pioneer of sorts, great thread. Browning out is to expected I would have to say and could be the result of 5500K sun light hitting the corals and not the 10,000K-15,000K light of your tank and in the deeper waters of the ocean. A good idea might be to grow out your corals in the green house and then move them indoors for a few weeks to color them up before you sell them. This will serve two purposes: 1) Get their color back obviously for better sales prices, 2) Get them used to indoor lighting again before you sell them so they adapt more readily for any customers that you have. One more thought that I had, instead of adding a geo-loop, why not install a couple 55 gal plastic drums in your basement (if you southern boys have them) and then connect that to your system. This will add about 100 gallons to the system and give you more thermal stability. Also, you can use the more constant temperature of your house to heat/cool the tank.

I skimmed through the last couple of pages to post, but are you having any troubles with the general lack of nutrients and the growth of soft corals?

Again, keep up the updates and post pics when you can.

justincognito · #**130** 03/19/2006, 11:31 AM

Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.

justincognito · #**131** 03/19/2006, 11:31 AM

Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.

justincognito · #**132** 03/19/2006, 11:31 AM

Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.

justincognito · #**133** 03/19/2006, 11:44 AM

did i repeat myself?

raaden · #**134** 03/19/2006, 12:21 PM

hamburglar,

Very nice thread, between you and Rick there are some really great things going on with coral farming. I have been doing some research for my marine biology degree and a business plan that I just finished for the same sort of thing on a larger scale. I think there are a couple of things that I have found both from Ricks "real world studies", and from my own studies.

Without getting into too much detail here is a real brief idea, if you want more of the background information let me know:

1. Corals light needs are different from plants in that they need light outside the PAR spectrum to create pigments that make up the pretty colors we like to see, especially the fluorescent colors. Most greenhouse coverings (the poly sheet AND poly films) are designed to remove these light frequencies because they are damaging to the plants. This is why you need to then put them under lights to "color them up". If you decide to change your covering make sure that you get a covering that lets light in from the 385-410 wavelengths, but blocks everything below 365 because these are the damaging ones. Watch out for full UV transmission as this would end up worse because the ones I have seen go all the way down to the bottom of the UVA. There are only two coverings that I have found that hit hit just below 385 and still block below 365. One is by KLERKS and even comes in a blue tint so you can better simulate the middle of the spectrum, and the other is wayyy to expensive to be worth it. There may be others but most are blocking below 410. Rick is using the clear Klerks and seems to be having good success

2. pvtschultz hit the second part just about right. Because the strongest light is in the UVA-Violet spectrum, when we measure the sunlight against the light from MH's the films are oversaturating the 540-620 (plants highest needs) to make up for the loss in the high energy spectrum (385-410)comparatively. This causes it to look like we are getting the right amount of light across the whole light specturm but it is actually not the right wavelengths and the corals are both still hungry for light and burning at the same time. The brownish color is is a combination of the symbionts changing to both protect themselves and to use more of the light available to grow.

There are a couple of other things but they get more in depth and would be better put into other threads. I just thought these were pretty greenhouse specific.

rustybucket145 · #**135** 03/20/2006, 08:17 AM

raaden: Does Klerks have a website? Where could one purchase these panels?

raaden · #**136** 03/20/2006, 09:00 AM

rustybucket,

They can be found at Klerks website . The film you are looking for is the KoolLite 380. Right now it is only available as a film and not in the PC panels. Additionally the blue version of this film will not be available, from what I can tell, until closer to the start of summer.

Unable to find right now the greenhouse suppliers site that had much more information about the films, but Klerks is one of the best suppliers and would be a special order at most shops. I know that Atlas carries their products.

rustybucket145 · #**137** 03/20/2006, 04:33 PM

There are no prices that I could find on the site. Do they sell directly to the public or to you have to go through a retailer?

raaden · #**138** 03/21/2006, 12:04 PM

Klerks does not sell directly to the public, but most greenhouse dealers do sell Klerks products. The ones that I have contacted do not "stock" the KoolLite film but have said they can order it. I was only able to get a price from one and it was more expensive that other films but for the performance I believe it is worth it. The others said they could get me a cost once I placed an order for it. Strange customer service if you ask me...

Treeman · #**139** 03/21/2006, 12:24 PM

Read this thread before you go out and buy the koolite.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=705495

raaden · #**140** 03/21/2006, 01:06 PM

Treeman,

That is a very interesting thread, I posted some questions there, I hope Anthony and yourself can help me understand a bit more.

I am glad I have not ordered yet, may I ask what film you have purchased or are looking to purchase, and maybe a little info as to why you decided on that film.

thanx

Treeman · #**141** 03/21/2006, 09:34 PM

I have Klerks K-50 on the top, two layers. On the end I put one layer of Koollite-380 and one layer of K-50. I was hoping it would cool the GH some late in the day and also block some of the heat later in the day.

I decided on that film because the film I used before was comparable and this film was supposed to be a longer lived product. All films have some UV blocking in them due to the fact that if they didn't they would not last a year (kinda like visqueen). It may be UV inhibiters if there is a difference. This film has only been up about 2 months. The other film (I can't remember the brand) was up over a year before Hurricane Wilma removed it. I had good growth with the other one and it seems like I will have better growth with this.

But, I did change the shade cloth, last time I had 40% and I thought it was to much so I went with 30% this time. Right now I have another layer of 30% below it because during the rebuilding process the tanks had almost 90% due to carport covers to keep the rain out.

Anthony may not see that other thread as he is not around here much anymore.

raaden · #**142** 03/22/2006, 08:58 AM

Hamburblar, didn't mean to detour your awesome thread, thanx for the space for the mini discussion. I noticed you were in NC we should talk offline. I have alot of plans and Ideas in my business plan that we might be able to work together at and maybe with Coastal (from R.O), Treeman and Rick you guys as well.

Treeman,

Thanx for the info. I too was looking at the K50 IR/AC until I saw the KL380. Not sure what route I will go. I would like to hear something from Anthony before I make the decision. BTW do you know if the email in his book is still good. I would really like to get him to review my business plan.

First off my condolences on your losses. I was originally looking to do this in VA Beach which is where I started out, but after reading your thread I decided to move to Raleigh NC to get away from the 'Canes. I am glad that you have such great resolve. I am not sure what my reaction would have been had I been in your situation.

Treeman · #**143** 03/22/2006, 12:08 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, You just do what you have to do. I may not have if I had lost all the stock. But I didn't and here I am.

I do think that Anthony's email is the same. I will try him and see if he will look. I think he is at marine depot.

rick rottet · #**144** 03/22/2006, 12:12 PM

WE NEED A GREENHOUSE FORUM!!!

raaden · #**145** 03/22/2006, 01:51 PM

I second the greenhouse forum...

redox · #**146** 03/24/2006, 05:16 PM

green house temp parameters and how to maintain them? well... it aint easy but it seems to work. there is a fine line between humidity and temp control and when that balance is reached every thing else seems to fall into place

RRodrigues · #**147** 03/24/2006, 08:24 PM

GH forum too for me

redox · #**148** 03/24/2006, 09:12 PM

you arent related to micky d's are you ?

hamburglar · #**149** 03/24/2006, 10:27 PM

Dag on, I don't check the tread for a week and you guys run amuck with it

Actually thanks! This is great information. I will be looking into the mentioned film options Raaden. Also big thanks to Rick and Treeman for chiming in. I can't help but get a kick out of you guys joining in, after I spent so much time reading over the threads you started. Heck, those threads along with Scubadudesâ€™s got me really interested in trying this years ago.

Iâ€™m still waiting on one last shipment before setting up the metal halide. I ordered the 14k bulb from EBay and got a 10K delivered after 2 weeks. Hopefully the seller will get me the 14K bulb before Iâ€™m old and grey.

I think after reading the above comments I will put my shade cloth back on around late April. I donâ€™t want to burn the corals up with wasted light spectrum.

Something else I am trying to do is tighten up my temperature swing. Basically, I just adjust my heaters and chiller to keep the swing tighter. Itâ€™s just money right? Got to grow some corals some time. I will have to live with the heaters and chiller running more often.

I also want to do just a little bit of geothermal to save cooling costs. I gave up on the well idea because it will cost around $800 per hole. I may look into renting a little digger and do a small horizontal loop. Sounds like one of those summertime projects. Hopefully I can get one for around $100-$200 and just put some hard labor into it.

So what other information do you have to share Redox? After finding out who you are, I bet you have some good greenhouse wisdom to pass on.

redox · #**150** 03/25/2006, 06:21 AM

i will try to pass some on ,hopfully without upseting anyone or getting booted in the process