A warning about toxicity. A MUST read. - Page 14

dufus · #**326** 09/24/2007, 12:29 PM

From what i have gathereed on all this, the Zooanthids aren't toxic.

It's the Palythoas that are deadly, and not all of them at that.

Button polyps are the dangerous ones, again, not all of them.

and, the toxin would have to be introduced in larger amounts than just a small open cut on your hand being in the very diluted palytoxin in the aquarium.

now, i could see if the man was fragging his polyps and there was a fair amount of palytoxin released that the dog ingested.

Another thing, it is a dog, therefore it's a bit smaller than a human and it would take less palytoxin to be fatal than it would take in a human.

Now i don't think we should get a false sense of securrity though.

The most toxic animal on earth is infact found in many people's aquariums.

And if you don't think your LFS would sell it to you, think again.

I can buy a black mamba if i want to for about 300$, or a monacled cobra for about 100$

You can also get an octopus with Cyonide in it's beutiful blue rings at some LFS.

The red eft(the juvinile form of the eastern newt) can sometimes be bought at reptile expos, and is very toxic.

for that matter, you can purchase or even find brown recluse spiders for a very small anmount.

just be carefull.

I, honestly, don't like button polyps in the first place, but am obsessed with zooanthids.

Know what you're buying, and know what's dangerous.

NanoCube-boy · #**327** 09/29/2007, 02:17 AM

Dufus, Are you serious that button polyps is toxin? I been fragging bare hand without gloves. Now that I know... It had spook me. Where did you get these information?

dufus · #**328** 09/29/2007, 06:14 PM

I can't remember exactly where the article was, but apparrantly the toxin is found in Palys, not zoas.

NanoCube-boy · #**329** 10/02/2007, 12:06 PM

Interesting information.

LegendLand · #**330** 10/23/2007, 06:49 AM

well so far the biologist & scientist documents state that its only been extracted from those 2 certain Palythoas. i think that is why they called it Paly-toxin, cause it lives in Palythoas, what needs to be done, is some of the most common species of Zoanthus NOT PALYTHOA sent for research, aquaculterd specimens NOT WILD CAUGHT, it is a known fact that some animals only get there toxins from there diet, this could be so with the zoas. alot of peop[le still dont know the difference between Zoanthus & Palythoa & zoanthus might be getting the blame for paly's reactions on humans & dogs.

also there has been research found that other corals, such as Favia, Goniopora,Euphyillia (Hammer Coral) & other mainly LPS corals carry toxins that can cuase or infict paralyzing toxins. if i remember correctly Acropora was even listed. (i'll double check later)
& most of us have had problems with flatworms, has anyone researched the toxins on these little fellows ? even the Discovery channel had a show about them !

also i suffered a posioning, but i didnt have zoas, i was actually handeling Dendronepthya every day, part of a External container feeding method i created, i was handeling it 2x a day every day. then one day it stung me. 2 days later i was in the hospital & i couldnt breath. took almost 3 weeks to regian breath but i was left with a defect in my left heart muscle, a heart murmur that never existed before the sting.

so the point is all corals & inverts & even some fish have the ability to kill or paralyze us. it just takes the right dose & the right sting.

napydred · #**331** 11/01/2007, 03:28 PM

interesting thread

TitoTee · #**332** 11/16/2007, 10:11 AM

Oh MY GOSH - I can't believe I read the bulk of this thread! What a bunch of crap. Most people are experiencing allergic reactions - they just didn't know they were allergic to certain sea creatures. The best piece of info came from the guy with the PH D. It's too bad the thread could not attract any marine biologist. Just a bunch of folks with 2 cents, 3 cents and 4 cents. I am saying what I am saying here because I just wasted 50 minutes of my life on this crap!!!!

geiges · #**333** 11/17/2007, 02:23 AM

hear is my 4 cents after reading many minutes of this.
jest got done moveing all my zoos and rock to get out a
damsal, with a cut or two on my hands than I read this thread.
I'll let you know how I make out!

uhuru · #**334** 11/23/2007, 01:38 PM

I am currently writing a term paper on palytoxin. I will provide a link to a pdf of my paper here when I'm done if that's okay. It will be all based on peer reviewed journal articles. So far I've read that palytoxin analogues have also been found in a sea anemone Radianthus macrodactylus (Mahnir et al. 1992), dinoflagellates (Lenoir et al., 2004) and I believe as others have mentioned it can be sequestered by marine animals so it has also been found in crabs and fishes. Palytoxin is also a skin tumor promoter by modifying cellular signaling involved with growth factors (Wattenberg, 2007). Dogs are more resistant to the hemolytic affects of the toxin because they lack the amount of Na+ K+ ATPase in their erythrocytes (Bottinger et al., 1986). I haven't read this whole thread but there are other affects both sudden and delayed, perhaps all this has already been mentioned here.

uhuru · #**335** 11/23/2007, 02:42 PM

Oh one more thing in case it hasnt been noted, palytoxin was found to be highly toxic by the USDA when administered IV, intramuscular or subcutaneous, but quite ineffective when ingested orally - so the main concern comes from when you have a cut and you don't wear gloves.

TitoTee · #**336** 11/23/2007, 02:52 PM

http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html

After you read about this Toxin. Go to the home page and see where this is listed.

Can it become a weapon?

Warning! If you're not a chemist - you wont enjoy reading this next paper!

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/100/2/386

uhuru · #**337** 11/23/2007, 04:41 PM

LOL, I have that paper right in front of me! I think that's a very nice explanation and very interesting - and I'm not a chemist.

ouuduy · #**338** 11/26/2007, 12:32 AM

I'm glad that there are alot of you guys out there doing some research with this because I never knew they could do this much harm and I will think twice about not wearing gloves when handling such an interesting creature.

uhuru · #**339** 11/27/2007, 02:45 AM

yeah palytoxin is no joke - there was a study in 1990 that found it was the strongest inducer of prostaglandin synthesis to date... it promotes skin tumors in a number of ways... not to mention it destroys red blood cells by causing them to lose all their potassium... and cardiac failure due to spasms of cardiac muscle and vasoconstriction - all at picomolar concentrations

look up clupeotoxism this has also been linked to eating fishes contaminated by palytoxin

hahaitzmickey · #**340** 12/29/2007, 12:26 AM

man that was a good thing to know that they are poisonous.... i been poking it with my finger.. but HEY i'm not dead yet ... hahaha

hahaitzmickey · #**341** 12/29/2007, 12:41 AM

but yea it is dangerous stuff.... before i didn't know what it was. and i poke it with my finger playing with it... and a few minutes later i went to bed.. as i was laying there i got really dizzy and wanted to puke and i was so tired i couldn't open my eyes.... then i woke up the next morning .. the paly toxin must of got in my system some how.. who knows..

TitoTee · #**342** 12/29/2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahaitzmickey
but yea it is dangerous stuff.... before i didn't know what it was. and i poke it with my finger playing with it... and a few minutes later i went to bed.. as i was laying there i got really dizzy and wanted to puke and i was so tired i couldn't open my eyes.... then i woke up the next morning .. the paly toxin must of got in my system some how.. who knows..

Here is what's scary!

911 is dialed. A man is in cardiac arrest. He is pronounced dead at the hospital. Coroner says its a heart attack. Weeks later a widow is posting a reef tank for sale.

Imagine how many times this may have happen......

and the real killer sits silently in hubby's tank!

Wolverine · #**343** 12/30/2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TitoTee
Here is what's scary!

911 is dialed. A man is in cardiac arrest. He is pronounced dead at the hospital. Coroner says its a heart attack. Weeks later a widow is posting a reef tank for sale.

Imagine how many times this may have happen......

and the real killer sits silently in hubby's tank!

Orrrrrrrrr, maybe he just had a regular old cardiac arrest and also happened to have an aquarium. Both are common enough that you would expect that to happen and it not necessarily have anything to do with the tank.

TitoTee · #**344** 12/30/2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolverine
Orrrrrrrrr, maybe he just had a regular old cardiac arrest and also happened to have an aquarium. Both are common enough that you would expect that to happen and it not necessarily have anything to do with the tank.

I agree. However, the point I'm trying to make is that there is a posibility of this sort of thing happening more than we may realize and there would be no collection of data since .....well......

how many coroners are going to be checking for Palytoxin as cause of death without any justifiable cause to search for it?