Testing the new Mag Flake

[melev]

Originally posted by mbbuna
are you sure your not confusing the processing changes Dow made to DOW Flake (calcium) with MAG flake(magnesium)?

Yep:

Originally posted by melev
We had a sticky in our club forum that either went to a thread here or to an insert in a Reefkeeping article.

Here it is:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

Editors note (3/10/07): Note, the manufacturer of MAG flake has alerted us that they very strongly recommend against using this product in reef aquaria. While many reef aquarists have successfully used the product, the manufacturer does not claim to be able to provide this product at suitable quality in the future.

[palmerc]

What is the supposed level of bromine in the Mag Flake. If it is only in at ppm levels then thsi will not be a problem at all, as NSW does contain quite a bit of bromine anway.

And also consider that one does not add huge quantities of magnesium, so then the amount of bromine added will be even lower.

[DrBDC]

Dead sea works hasn't said what would change or if it would. It was more of a warning.

[2thdeekay]

I've used IO & RC in the past, and experienced lower levels of Ca, etc. Last year the LFS started carrying Oceanpure exclusively. It's the only salt mix I've tried that seems to have pretty decent Ca, Alk and Mg levels. I was suprised, and it seems to be consistent with each batch.

They also offer Oceanpure Pro, which is more expensive and offers increased levels of Ca, etc. for reefs, but I think the less expensive oceanpure salt has sufficiently high Ca/Alk/Mg.

Last batch tested 510ppm Ca, 4.8 meq/l Alk, 1400ppm Mg, but overall (in the last 11 months for a 90 sps reef, where I change 10% each week) it has been pretty consistent.

I get higher readings when I clean my 30 gal mixing tank (trashcan) with vinegar--to remove ppt/tan colored scale, prior to mixing a new batch of saltwater.

Originally posted by SDguy
Yes IO, or RC. Either way, I have to add Mg and Ca.

I am as of yet unfamiliar with *any* salt mix that has the levels I want, straight out of the bag...

[jnfallon]

I can't imagine its too expensive to get two analyses done - one for magflake one for dowflake - on the newer batches.

If you guys find out where to do the analysis, I'll coordinate the $$.

Justin

My email is justin (at) tickets.org if we need to take this off rc.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd have to say that I am confused about what is in need of testing and why. Is MAG flake known to have changed? Does it come differently now? The MAG flake folks have complained for a long time that they do not recommend using it as we do. They presumably do not want the liability and/or lost sales for folks to use their cheap grades for Mg supplements, instead of their very expensive grades. Whether there is any real concern of a changed product or not is unknown, however. What is the basis for concern about increased bromide in MAG flake?


For Dowflake and the associated bromide increase that Dow claims, you can get a bromide analysis here, but it may cost more than the stated $44 as they will have to prep the sample and determine an appropriate concentration to test:

http://www.enclabs.com/fees.html

That said, I'm not sure what's to be gained, as the Dow-claimed amount of bromide is now too high. Are you hoping that it isn't as high as Dow claims? Or are you wanting to test other brands?

A bromide /Dowflake thread:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1166963

[jnfallon]

My misunderstanding, Randy.

I thought that the evidence regarding dowflake was anecdotal at best, I didnt realize they had published their new composition. Oh well.

I quote Emily Latella -

"Never - mind"

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No problem.

Happy reefing.

[melev]

Randy, the reason I'm asking about this is because of the quote in the first post (top of this page) taken from Reefkeeping.com

If we can continue to use Mag Flake, that's great. However, if we can't, so be it. I don't mean to be ultra cheap, as I know we can buy large bags of it from Two Part Solution but I've wondered what they are actually selling anyway. Is it the same Mag Flake, and they purchased a ton of it before the recipe was altered? Or is it whatever Mag Flake is made of today, and they are just hoping nothing bad will happen?

I bought a half bag of Mag Flake about 3 years ago, and it lasted me 12 months. I bought another full bag after that, and have used up about 70% of it. So at some point, I'll need more and was trying to find out what would be suitable before I'm completely out of magnesium.

[davy182]

I will have some magnesium from a chemical supplier here in orlando. I will be more than happy to donate some for experimenting.

David

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Marc:

There is no reason to think the MAG flake may have changed. Neither I nor they will guarantee that no changes have been made (and that was the point of the warning), but there have not been any known change.

[dadonoflaw]

but for calcium it seems the only route is to get a ca rx or some sort of dry calcium chloride for maintenance?

[2thdeekay]

I use a Ca Reactor/Nilsen reactor for my larger reef. But I usually keep some Prestone Driveway Heat (Dow's Peladow), as it's easy to find locally. The batch purchased in 2004 was running low, so I picked up another case.

Before using it for my larger displays, I've tested it in my 10 gal reef that I supplement with 2 part (mostly zooanthids & some hard corals).

After a month of dosing the new batch of peladow, I can discern no difference in the health of the 10 gal reef.

I had the impression there was a colorimetric test kit for bromide ion, used for ground/well/drinkinig water testing. Someone should know more about this than I do.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

but for calcium it seems the only route is to get a ca rx or some sort of dry calcium chloride for maintenance?

There are many choices, including my preference, limewater (kalkwasser).

[dadonoflaw]

i am dripping kalk through a reactor but it isnt enough. i have been using your recipe happily because my ph is about 7.7-7.6 at night i dont have the grapes to run a cal rx so i was just curious as to what i could run in addition to kalk for my 220 gal of water volume

[melev]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Marc:

There is no reason to think the MAG flake may have changed. Neither I nor they will guarantee that no changes have been made (and that was the point of the warning), but there have not been any known change.

Thanks Randy.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.