The Future!!!!!!

[greenbean36191]

There are huge reminants in fossil form of massive extinction's of whole reef structures. Guess where they can be found? Some on the top of the Rocky Mountains and some 500 meters underneath current reefs. There were huge forests covering the uppermost reaches of the Arctic circle which are now uninhabitable by all except for lichens and some cariboo. What am i getting at here...

Things change. Organisms adapt.

True. The key part there though is having changes on geographic and temporal scales that make them possible to adapt to. Changes happening as widespread and fast as what most of the reefs are facing now don't fit that bill. The additive effect of multiple stressors at once makes it extremely hard to adapt to one before another does you in.

The worry isn't that change is happening. It's that lots of unprecedented changes are happening at once, happening fast, and happening over large areas.

Just a little vent here. Any "environmentalist" that keeps a reef tank that isn't directly powered by renewable alternative energy is a hypocrite. Quit complaining, shut your tanks down and go stop local fisherman from dragging their anchors across the reefs, quit buying livestock which is most likely cyanide caught, and ride a bicycle to work.

Sure there is some hypocracy in asking people to be environmentally responsible while you keep a reef, but where do you draw the line? How much do you have to do before you're no longer a hypocrite? I don't think most "environmentalists" would expect you to shun modern comforts, give up your hobbies, or sell your car and house for smaller models. All that most would ask is that you realize what impact you have and make small changes to reduce it without reducing your quality of life. It's not an all or nothing proposition.

Switching to compact fluorescents, insulating your house, keeping your tires properly inflated, walking when you can, driving a reasonably sized car when you have to drive, turning your thermostat up or down a few degrees, turning off lights when you don't need them, using alternative energy if it's an option... None of those are going to change your life. Most will save you money. All make a small difference. That difference adds up.

[Scythanith]

I 100% agree with the fact that time scale will directly control an organisms ability to adapt. But, if something doesn't adapt to the changing environement immediatley. It will only be a matter of time until some other organism will fill the void ecological niche.

There have been quite a few mass extinction events through out the course of Earth's known history. Cretaceous/Tertiary extinction, The extinction at the end of the Triassic, Permian triassic extinction, Late devonian extinction, and the ordovicion/Silurian extinction. All of these are believed to have happened over a quick period (100's of years).

Haahaa, so what does this go to show? Maybe it's about time for another mass extinction event? Last was 65 million years ago.

As for the hypocracy of reef keeping environmentalists. I stand by my statment. If you were truly worried about the environment I am sure you could give up a hobby. Getting to work, maybe not.

I think you may be preaching to the choir. Like I said on my previous post:

"What can we do about it? Reduce your global footprint, simple as that. Get everyone in your family to switch to compact flourescent bulbs."

I agree, do what we you can to lower unneccesary energy expendatures. The new home Wendy and I are building is being built to Canadian Zone C Energy Star standards. I have R-55 ceilings, R-30 walls, double pane argon windows, insulated steel doors, 96.6% efficient carrier furnace with HVAC, all CF lightbulbs, all natural gas furnace, water heater, stove/range, and laundry dryer. Sure it costs a lot more, but it will at least hopefully offset my need for reefing. I don't consider myself an environmentalist, but I will do what I fell comfortable doing. My house will on average be 45% more efficient than a typical house built in Canada today.

Everyone know's what could be done, it's just whether or not they choose to do anything about it.

Cheers,

Scott

[Rossini]

In the UK a couple of the big power companys provide electricity from wind and hydro at no extra cost. I use this. I wish more people would convert over,this would then give the government the push to get more renewable energy going (wind turbines etc). I'm sure you must have the same thing in the US.

So my reef tank has very little impact. I only buy frags,and my power comes from renewables. Although 80% of my fish are wild caught.

I'm getting really fed up with people slating people for caring about the envronment and having concern for global warming. It's starting to really anger me to be honest. There is so much information on GW,there is no excuse to be in denial. But so many people are sadly deluded or paranoid that its some kind of conspiracey theory. WAKE THE F*CK UP PEOPLE. The only conspircey was the US oil firms and a certain idiot in power paying scientists tens of 1000's of dollars to deny GW. The sooner you guys get him/them out,and get some decent guys in the better. The worlds needs/has to have the US on board to tackle this massive issue. It's the biggest issue mankind has ever had. We have got to stop wasting time.

Waits for a good slating from the rednecks.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by NY_Carp_Sticker
there should always be reefs "should" you guys have seen how fast these guys can grow, they'll just creep to colder and colder water as it becomes inhabitable, I'm sure not in the numbers they are now, but I really wouldn't be too worried about it.

There are two problems here (sorry if someone else has already discussed this). One is that, while corals can grow quickly, there are other things that grow a whole lot more quickly, like cyanobacteria and hair algae. As the cooler areas become more appropriate for coral, those algae are going to take over much more quickly than the corals can grow in.
The other problem is that the habitable bands will have much less total surface area available, so even if they do fill in with coral and a full reef ecology, it will be significantly less total biomass than we have now.
Of course, all of this ignores the issues of how fast corals can adapt to the changes and how fast their progeny can get further away from the equatorial regions.

Dave

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by bahhareef
What do you think the future of reefkeeping will be like? If coral reefs do bleach and become naturally extinct (heaven forbid) effectively the only habitat for corals and their inhabitants will be aquariums.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get to the point where the importation is banned and the only available animals will be tank raised. In fact, I expect that this will happen sometime in my lifetime. Hopefully we'll have a much wider variety of tank-raised/aquacultured animals available when it happens. If it happens in the near future, it could be the bell tolling for the hobby.

Every once in a while one of the environmental or animal treatment groups aims their sights on us (I think misguidedly in both cases, though their hearts are in the right place), but it's never been with the full bore of their ability. They're much stronger politically than a group of hobbyists, and if they really come after us, I think we're in trouble. What would set that off? Probably a big wipe-out of one of the major reefs in the world, especially if it gets a lot of publicity.

Dave