Fish suggestion for 20 long Sps setup going on 4 years., 30lbs live rock Already ha

[10" Red Devil]

Okay so I have had rotten luck in the fish department. I had a nice compliment of fish in this tank, but slowly and surely all but the Allens Damsels have bought the farm. Originally the tank had 1 Allens Damsel, 1 Lubbocks Wrasse (was in the tank for about a year), 2 blue line cardinals (or one of the look alikes I have come to find out). The Cardinals died after about 4 months of owning them, from what I think was starvation. They never really ate anything but mysis shrimp which I fed with the other food, but I think they just never really got enough. I feed daily by the way. I also have fed. The lubboks was then left alone with the Allens Damsel for a year before basically disappearing. Initially it hid often and then came out once never to be seen again. I think the Allens damsel bullied it, but cant confirm it. Now the Allen's has been in the tank for 4 months alone and Ill be damned if this tank has one fish! I like diversity what can I say! Is it possible? I mean I thought that a 20 could have a few small fish.

Oh and the tank has SPS.

I am willing to take the Allens out and place it in a low key 12 gallon nano-cube with a banded goby that never comes out.

Thanks for any suggestions

[yiliyang]

Damsels are very territorial fishes. Once established, they will harass all other fishes you try to add in the tank. It will only be a matter of time before the new comer die from either starvation or stress. I have heard of a trick of putting other fishes in the tank where fish keepers take out their damsels and reintroduce them back after a week or so time with some rearrangement of the rock work. It sounds to me like you have that option. Good luck.

btw, I have a couple of flasher wrasse, they are colorful and adds a lot of movement to my tank.

[Mariner]

You could go with a couple of other damsels and make it a "survival of the fittest" tank. But personally, I like the idea of removing the Allens for a week or two, rearranging the rockwork and adding something else either before or at the same time you put the Allen's back in.
I like Ocellaris clowns and chalk bass in smaller tanks.
Here's a picture of my Chalk Bass in my 40g.

HTH,
Mariner

[Monkeyfish]

Remove the damsel or rearrange the tank just prior to adding other fish. Possible tankmates would be other similar sized damsels, six-line wrasse, purple dottyback, Midas blennie or inverts such as cleaner or pistol shrimp. I wouldn't add more than 2 small fish to a tank that size and just one more would probably be ideal.

[10" Red Devil]

Any ideas for how to remove the Damsel without completely rearanging the live rock?

Thanks.

[10" Red Devil]

Originally posted by Monkeyfish
Remove the damsel or rearrange the tank just prior to adding other fish. Possible tankmates would be other similar sized damsels, six-line wrasse, purple dottyback, Midas blennie or inverts such as cleaner or pistol shrimp. I wouldn't add more than 2 small fish to a tank that size and just one more would probably be ideal.

Oh really well I wonder how Julian Sprung keeps 5 small fish in his 15 gallon tank?

Although your probably right.

[SDguy]

I think you could add a pseudo. They can hold their own. You never mention the size of the damsel (or did I miss it?) That'll make a difference...

[10" Red Devil]

Originally posted by SDguy
I think you could add a pseudo. They can hold their own. You never mention the size of the damsel (or did I miss it?) That'll make a difference...

No your right I didnt mention the damsels size. It is approximately 1.75-2" give or take I would say.

Thanks.

[Mariner]

Yes most pseudochromis (dottybacks) could hold their own or better -- some might actually be too aggressive. The same is true of nearly any other damsel, IMO.
As you mentioned, some might keep as many as 5 small fish in a 20 ... I knew one guy that kept that many in a 10g for a couple of years...constant water changes, etc. But, it would require more attention to maintenance and would probably not be good to try in an SPS tank. I've got 3 fish in my 40g and 5 in my 75g.
FWIW,
Mariner

[10" Red Devil]

Originally posted by Mariner
Yes most pseudochromis (dottybacks) could hold their own or better -- some might actually be too aggressive. The same is true of nearly any other damsel, IMO.
As you mentioned, some might keep as many as 5 small fish in a 20 ... I knew one guy that kept that many in a 10g for a couple of years...constant water changes, etc. But, it would require more attention to maintenance and would probably not be good to try in an SPS tank. I've got 3 fish in my 40g and 5 in my 75g.
FWIW,
Mariner

Well Im doing 5 gallon water changes weekly. I have a ASM G1 Skimmer in the sump. Run Chaeto on a reverse Lighting cycle for 16hours. I also have a Phosreactor with rowaphos?

I guess 5 fish is kinda rediculous, but like I said I like diversity and think it would be great to have that many fish. Of course not if it means to the detriment of the fishes health.

[Mariner]

With your set up and maintenance routine, you could possibly pull it off. IMO the two remaining issues would be
1) Overcrowding makes fish more aggressive, and that might be a concern, depending on which fish you choose to go with.
2) SPS prefer pristine water, as I'm sure you know, and with waste from 5 fish in a 20g, you're not leaving much margin for error if your skimmer pump goes down or you have to skip a water change.
FWIW,
Mariner

[10" Red Devil]

Originally posted by Mariner
With your set up and maintenance routine, you could possibly pull it off. IMO the two remaining issues would be
1) Overcrowding makes fish more aggressive, and that might be a concern, depending on which fish you choose to go with.
2) SPS prefer pristine water, as I'm sure you know, and with waste from 5 fish in a 20g, you're not leaving much margin for error if your skimmer pump goes down or you have to skip a water change.
FWIW,
Mariner

Yes this is true, I just wonder how Julian Sprung pulls it off though. I mean Im pretty sure he has 5 fish in a 15 gallon. He does a water change once a month and I think its only like 15 percent or something rediculous like that. Its packed with clams, lps, sps, etc. Have you ever seen this tank?

Thanks.

[I like Triggers]

If I were you, I would ditch the damsel, and get a few smaller fish. In a 20 you could go with a firefish, clown gobies, any 'cleaner' gobies, maybe a perc or false perc.

Although I dont think I would agree with everything on this list, it's a good start:
http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Brow...3A%2ENano+Fish