280 gallon tank project has begun!!!!!! - Page 12

Travis · #**276** 06/26/2004, 12:56 PM

Well, I guess everyone knows it now... Maybe I am a little insane

I'll try to answer everyone's questions in this post. If I miss anything let me know.

There are 4 closed loops. 2 Sting Rays push water through a 1.5" actuating ball valve. The third closed loop is another Sting Ray that pushes water through the 4-way. This loop will be responsible for keeping detritus off the bottom of the tank. The fourth closed loop is an Iwaki MD 100RLT feeding a 3/4HP CSL in-line chiller. The chiller was placed on a closed loop so that the it would still keep the tank cool should the return pump fail.

Yes, I did consider fewer but larger pumps. What I want in this tank is a LOT of RANDOM flow. The kind of flow I will achieve could never be accomplished with only a couple BIG pumps. And, actually, going with fewer larger pumps wouldn't have been any easier on the electric bill.

There are a total of 8 pumps on the system. I already explained the closed loops above.

The remaining pumps are a Sting Ray for the return pushing through a 1.5" actuating ball valve, a Blueline HD55 feeding the clam tank upstairs, an Iwaki MD 30RLT feeding the calcium reactor and rowa reactor, and a Sequence 3200 feeding the MR-6 skimmer.

Every pump intake and output, and also every bulkhead is plumbed with a true union ball valve. The true union ball valves allow me to easily remove any pump for servicing while only spilling a minute amount of water. The true union ball valves near each bulkhead allow me to remove or change any of the plumbing in the future without draining the tank.

And yes, I am a little scared to see the first electric bill.

However, it's not the pumps that will be sucking the most juice. That will be done by the lighting.

SOMEthinsFISHY · #**277** 06/26/2004, 08:47 PM

yes u r obsessed travis !

minfinger · #**278** 06/26/2004, 08:54 PM

Travis,

I'm telling you man, "You really don't have enough flow"

OMG that's sweet. You've got my thinking now that I should build my propagation system with individual pumps or possibly 2 pumps on each tank. And they're only 90G tanks LOL

Sounds like you've been planning for a while. So does your wife ring you dinner down to your new bedroom in a carry out box?

I also understand why you went insane on the GFCI outlets

kozmo02 · #**279** 06/27/2004, 02:00 AM

has lighting been discussed? did i miss it somewhere? what are your plans?

Travis · #**280** 06/27/2004, 08:39 AM

SOMEthinsFISHY, yes I am.

minfinger, This system has been in planning since the beginning of February when my 75 gallon sps tank crashed due to a drain clogging and my auto-top-off adding over 15 gallons of kalk in a few hours.

After that I knew it was time to build a bulletproof system with as much redundancy as possible. I haven't actually started living in the house yet (tonight will be the first night), but when I do I'm thinking maybe I need to install an intercom system in the tank room so I can page my fiance when I need something.

kozmo02, No, it hasn't been discussed much yet. I have 5 400 watt PFO HQI ballasts for the tank. I will be running 20k 10k 20k 10k 20k in spider light reflectors. The bulbs will be XM 10k's and Radium 20k's. The canopy will be connected to a sliding rail that will allow me to completely slide it off to the side of the tank for easy access. I probably won't start building the canopy until after everything else is done and the rock is curing. The rock will be curing for 2 months so I will need something to occupy my time.

Travis · #**281** 06/27/2004, 08:41 AM

I'm moving everything to my new house today. I won't have internet access for about a week so I'll update once I'm back online again.

Lunchbucket · #**282** 06/28/2004, 05:37 AM

good luck travis...hope the move goes easy an dyou enjoy the new place!!!

later buddy
Lunchbucket

SOMEthinsFISHY · #**283** 06/29/2004, 05:59 AM

travis c u them i am also !! but not that bad I think !!

SOMEthinsFISHY · #**284** 06/29/2004, 05:59 AM

travis c u them i am also !! but not that bad I think !!

FishhyRen · #**285** 06/29/2004, 10:14 AM

That's a lot of power!!
(Not including the powered valves and OceansMotion)

I calculated about 2262Watts for JUST the pumps!!!!!
and another 373Watts for the chiller (1HP = ~746W)

According to google SD's power is about $0.07 per KWH and the power calculator (w/chiller on 6 hours) came out to be:
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$120 a month!!!!! (Not including lights/fans/powered valves/heaters/controllers)

That's about $1717 a year in power for just the pumps and chiller!!!

Wow man!!! You are the man!! That's huge!

kirkfrey · #**286** 07/01/2004, 12:28 PM

I was just looknig to get some true union ball valves. they are expensive! (~$35 for the 1 1/2"). the way I count it looks like you have about $1000 in ball valves alone!

Where did you get them?

AcroSteve · #**287** 07/01/2004, 02:30 PM

I looked at some double union ball valves and did not like what I saw. When removing 1/2 of the union, there was not enough support on the ball to keep it sealed. This would allow water to leak out. The single union valves by the same manufacturer did not have this problem.

They were sch40 american. I decided to go with seperate valves and unions.

I see you have sch80. Surely, this is not typical for double union valves, is it?

Zephrant · #**288** 07/01/2004, 09:41 PM

I've noticed that some valves that look like they have a union on them, actually don't. They merely have a way to disassemble them for cleaning. Steve- The ball gets loose because it can come out when you take that end off.

There are good ones available (like shown above) that are true union, and can be taken apart and cleaned. And they still hold back full pressure no matter which side you take apart.

Of course, they are not as cheap.

Zeph

Mickey · #**289** 07/01/2004, 10:31 PM

So, which brand of ball valves with true unions would you all recommend? I had read that Hayward values were pretty good but they are $35 - $60 depending on where you buy.

Any other good quality alternatives?
Mickey

Acrylics · #**290** 07/02/2004, 12:11 AM

Hayward, Asahi, and Spears all make good ones - pricing will vary with size, quantity, and where you buy 'em of course. Spears came out with a cool idea idea not long ago in that the unions on the ball valves match their regular unions, so that if you solvent weld something together and change your mind or do it incorrectly, you don't have to replace the whole true union valve - just union part.

HTH,
James

SOMEthinsFISHY · #**291** 07/02/2004, 05:17 AM

my electric bill is 490 dols per month a car pay ment !!

SOMEthinsFISHY · #**292** 07/02/2004, 05:17 AM

my electric bill is 490 dols per month a car pay ment !!

FishhyRen · #**293** 07/02/2004, 07:44 AM

That's some serious cash!!!! That's like a quarter of what I make ALL MONTH at my unversity job....

RGibson · #**294** 07/02/2004, 08:00 AM

Steve i used sch 80 spears double union ball valves you can take them apart and the ball will not come out,1 in cost me $21.00 each i have 14 of them. Ralph

Travis · #**295** 07/02/2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
good luck travis...hope the move goes easy an dyou enjoy the new place!!!

later buddy
Lunchbucket

The move went smooth, not necessarily easy though.

And, yes, I'm loving the house.

Travis · #**296** 07/02/2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SOMEthinsFISHY
travis c u them i am also !! but not that bad I think !!

Good luck with your move.

Travis · #**297** 07/02/2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FishhyRen
That's a lot of power!!
(Not including the powered valves and OceansMotion)

I calculated about 2262Watts for JUST the pumps!!!!!
and another 373Watts for the chiller (1HP = ~746W)

According to google SD's power is about $0.07 per KWH and the power calculator (w/chiller on 6 hours) came out to be:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
$120 a month!!!!! (Not including lights/fans/powered valves/heaters/controllers)

That's about $1717 a year in power for just the pumps and chiller!!!

Wow man!!! You are the man!! That's huge!

That sounds pretty close. I don't remember how to convert amps to watts but the chiller is about 13 amps. I'm guessing it will run around 4 hours per day. The lights will contribute another 27 amps @ 12 hrs per day. The rest of the equipment will be pretty insignificant. The actuators do suck up over 1 amp each but will only run for a few seconds every few minutes. All the other stuff is under 1 amp. I estimate my electric bill for the tanks alone to be around $350-$400 per month. I figured I can trade my Nissan Xterra in for a hooptie and I'll be good to go.

Travis · #**298** 07/02/2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kirkfrey
I was just looknig to get some true union ball valves. they are expensive! (~$35 for the 1 1/2"). the way I count it looks like you have about $1000 in ball valves alone!

Where did you get them?

After much searching I turned to ebay. Do a search on ebay for the member midstates11. Here is his price list for sch. 80 true union ball valves:

1/2"----------------->$5.00
3/4"----------------->$6.55
1"-------------------->$9.00
1 1/2"--------------->$17.38
2"-------------------->$23.80

All of the valves come with both slip AND threaded ends. You can order as many valves as you wish. This is by far the cheapest prices I could find for new sch. 80 true union ball valves.

Travis · #**299** 07/02/2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AcroSteve
I looked at some double union ball valves and did not like what I saw. When removing 1/2 of the union, there was not enough support on the ball to keep it sealed. This would allow water to leak out. The single union valves by the same manufacturer did not have this problem.

They were sch40 american. I decided to go with seperate valves and unions.

I see you have sch80. Surely, this is not typical for double union valves, is it?

I've never experienced this with double union ball valves.

Travis · #**300** 07/02/2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mickey
So, which brand of ball valves with true unions would you all recommend? I had read that Hayward values were pretty good but they are $35 - $60 depending on where you buy.

Any other good quality alternatives?
Mickey

I agree with Acrylics' recommendations. I think the valves I have are Asahi. I prefer Hayward plumbing products the most. They seem to be very well made.