The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[JohnL]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...92#post8357992

[KafudaFish]

Before I cut it I wondered if it would spike and need to cure again. I guess I was right. The rock I made at the same time is hanging out in the 8 range. The slab is only 11.5" x 7.5" x 1.5" so it should cycle quickly.
Because this is for such a small tank I am taking it very slowly. I really am not in any rush to start the other tank because of my other tanks. This is more of an experiment as anything else.
If necessary I can stick the slab in either my 95 system or my 29 just to see if it spikes in the salt water before I start the 2.5. Thanks.

[Marinest]

Thanks Speckled and Travis

[Travis L. Stevens]

Woohoo! Thread Split!!!

[coyoteseven]

You know you made the 'big show' when you make the split.

Congrats, Travis!










WOOHOO!!! Post #1234 for me!

[ODOG]

Travis thanks for looking that up,
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=1

It's a project I've been wanting to try since I first read it. I have some homemade rock sitting in my back yard. It's only a few pieces I was playing around one night. I think I used 4 parts sand, 1 part caribsea aragonite and 1 part quikrete. I was happy with the density but didn't like that every piece has 1 flat side, lol. I'm gonna try another batch using some rock salt and do it in conjuction with making the cement wall on a 75 I have in my garage. Sounds like a good garage project for this winter when it's to cold to go out side. Maybe if anyone else tries the rock they can try the yeast method of curing to see how well it works.

[KafudaFish]

I have been thinking about the yeast and sugar method too but wonder if the yeast would not work when the pH was high such as 10+. If all we are doing is making CO2 available wouldn't macro algae work too? Use some water from a WC and set up an aquarium with some Cheato and a grow light.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Well, you could do what some people do on freshwater planted tanks. Take yeast and sugar in a two liter bottle. The waste from the yeast is CO2, get the CO2 to be bubbled into the Kuring bin to keep the pH down.

If having a low pH is what really helps Kure the rock faster, than that would be the way to go. But I really don't know what chemicals are coming out of the rock, how they react to CO2, and what the saturation limit is of the water that the rocks are being Kured in.

I guess this goes way beyond my high school chemistry, but theoretically if things go smoothly, it could work. But the odds would be against our favor.

[KafudaFish]

Now I just need to brew some beer and stick my exhaust tube in an aquarium. I would think that the CO2 would be reacting with the carbonate ions from the cement. Basically the carbonate buffering cycle as seen in freshwater systems is occurring. By adding the CO2 to the system, the chemical reactions should continue and the pH should change. Isn't this one of the reasons for WC during the curing process isn't it? It is just as easy to do WC's but it would be interesting to see which would be faster: Daily WC vs. CO2. They would probably both be about the same though. With the CO2 just keep adding more sugar/yeast when the bubbling has slowed. Yeah this all goes back to the science geek.

[Travis L. Stevens]

That's the impression that I was under. But, I'm consulting with Randy Holmes-Farley to clear up any possible misinformation that could be presented. Most of my "suggestions" are speculative at best. I don't know much about the detailed, chemical side of what is going on, nor do I remember much of my high school chemistry

[thriceanangel]

what about mixing in baking soda in the dry mix, and then before it hardens, add some vinegar for some unleavened live rock, or ULR as I call it...

[speckled trout]

Dang, I'm sure glad I have a river to put mine into to cure.

The water is constantly being "changed so to speak" by the flowing water. No effort is required on my part beyond placing it into the river in crates.

I can't imagine trying to change water or speed up the process with the several hundred pounds that I've got going right know.

[evilpsych]

let me get this straight.. for those not wanting to re-read the entire thread.. the newest recipe is as follows?

Portland Cement
Morton's Rock Salt (water softner salt)
Sugar
Brewer's yeast..

Now, you are mixing all this together and then forming rocks? correct me if i'm wrong.. but it sounds like a good deal, if the yeast doesn't die from the cement heating up, or doesnt die from the salinity.

Someone wanna edit this down?

[Travis L. Stevens]

There is no new recipe at the moment. It's still Rock Salt and Cement. There is a proposal to use yeast and sugar in the water to help speed up the Kuring Process. Not added to the rock itself.

[speckled trout]

Not everyone uses rock salt, either. Very porous rocks can be created using a relatively dry cement mixture. The whole process can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to become. I prefer simple.

I haven't priced the salt, but I know that I can make my rocks for pennies on the pound without using it and still have all the porosity that I need.

By the way, I'm not trying to knock what you guys are trying to do with the rock salt. Experimentation is fun.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by speckled trout
Not everyone uses rock salt, either. Very porous rocks can be created using a relatively dry cement mixture. The whole process can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to become. I prefer simple.

Well said and good to clear up that point.

I haven't priced the salt, but I know that I can make my rocks for pennies on the pound without using it and still have all the porosity that I need.

$5/50lb bag. The same price as sand. A straight salt/cement mix is just as cheap as a sand/cement mix and possibly slightly cheaper than a sand/CC/cement mix. All in all, the money in it isn't much no matter what type of rocks you make.

By the way, I'm not trying to knock what you guys are trying to do with the rock salt. Experimentation is fun.

No offense was taken. It just goes to show that there is more than one successful way of making rock. And no matter what method you choose, you are still saving rocks from being taken directly out of the ocean. Which is the whole purpose of DIY Rocks; conservation. The fact that they are cheap and fun to make is the icing on the cake.

[drauka99]

since the thread has been split can someone repost the basic instructions. I have a 180 I am working on (upgrade from a 55 gallon) and I was thinking I might make a couple batches of rock, get it cured and then add in my "real" live rock and let it get colonized. Also I live close to a bayou off of the Gulf of Mexico, has anyone tried curing in salt water? better results, about the same, or did you get bad stuff hitchhiking?

[Travis L. Stevens]

People started to have better results with the unofficial improved recipe. More or less if you start out with 3-4 parts of salt and are mixing the water by hand, unless you are really lucky, you'll probably get too much water and have to add more cement to thicken it back up. Eventually you'll get down to the unofficial improved recipe's range.

Original Recipe: 4:1 - 3:1 / Salt:Cement
Improved Recipe: 3:1 - 2:1 / Salt:Cement

Other additives that have been used include salt, crushed coral, crushed oyster shell, biodegradable packing peanuts, macaroni, etc.

[drauka99]

ok cool, and has anyone cured in a natural salt water body of water yet?

and your useing ballons to make passageways while the rock is still wet?

[Travis L. Stevens]

I think that some has cured in saltwater, but I don't think that they have reported back yet. Because of Florida Waters, I would check state and local laws and check with any wildlife management groups or game wardens just to make sure.

Yes, while still wet.

[drauka99]

I have a buddy with a dock who will prob let me borrow one of his boxes for a while to let it cure.

How long has it been takeing for chunks say 8-10lb range to cure?

[Travis L. Stevens]

*shrugs* I actually don't know. I would guess 8-10 weeks tops. Possibly less.

[ODOG]

I'll just add another possible ingrediant....pvc shavings. This is suggested on the garf website because of coraline algaes propensity for growing on it. I saved a bunch of shavings from my plumbing to give it a try.

I agree that the beauty with not only DIy but reefing in general is that there is no right or wrong way to do anything. Thats what always gets me when I see a flame war erupt in threads.

[drauka99]

Alright I guess I'll be trying thos in a week or 2.

[Flusher]

Awesome thread. I've been itching to try this out for awhile, and this thread really helped me decide to do it (I just found this thread a few days ago). I finally started my rock tonight.

I used the simple 3:1 ratio [Water Softener Salt: Portland Cement (Type 10)]. I can tell that it's going to flake off at the surface, but hopefully the rest will be nice and tough.

I made a mock-up of my planned tank upgrade using 1/2" pink styrofoam. I even built the overflow so I could form the rock around it. The metal scraper is there so I can break the rock in half easily once it dries, and reassemble the two pieces afterwards. If that was all one piece, I'd have problems finding a place to kure it, let alone fit it into my tank safely.





This is the bottom level of three or four layers I plan to build. I'll probably add legs under this layer so it isn't right on the bottom glass. I've decided to go barebottom with my new tank.

Would this make a difference as opposed to rock lying flat on tanks with sandbeds, wrt dead spots?

Once this layer hardens, I'm going to cover it with plastic wrap and build the next layer on top. That way, it'll be a nice fit between layers, but it'll be easy to tear apart and reassemble. I'll probably drill holes through certain areas to help the thicker globs of concrete kure faster. Would this help at all?