Foam stuff for the "rock work" look????

[comatose]

i'm not trying to burst any ones bubble here, i am just talking about facts about using this stuff, before you either kill your tank creatures or wait till a piece breaks off and goes strait to the surface and clogs your overflow and you have a flood.
Dow company didn't just say that it isn't recommended for aquariums they said "water will break it down over time" they know this product better than anyone else and they were stating fact in the email.
i have been working with this stuff for 14 years and seen with my own eyes what happens when it gets wet and stays wet for long periods of time.
to give you a few more examples this is basically the same material that they use on floating docks, if you ever get a chance to touch it after it's been in the water for one season or two look at your hand after you do touch it and also see how brittle it gets.
another example is the next time you goto the beach, walk along the beach and look for a piece of foam that has some algae growth on it(meaning its been in the water for a while) pick it up and see what happens to it in your hands and then look at the dust from it on your hands, that means it’s breaking down. Just like the email says,

Also this same stuff is in the hulls of boats, ask anyone who had a boat for a while and guys who work on boats what happens to this stuff.
Ask people who have swimming pools that have foam floats for over a year or two and had to throw them away cause the foam start to break down.

And don’t even get me started on what happens to it when you start letting the ultra violet rays hit it also.

Now you’ve heard from the maker of this stuff and one who has worked with it for 14 years, it’s up to you now, this is the last you’ll here from me on this, I can’t say anymore to help you, you been forewarned.
Good luck.

[qwuintus]

If its so bad, why have people been running this on freshwater tanks for a while. Also there was a guy on the forum with great stuff foam in his tank for well over a year.

[rufio173]

comatose,

If I didn't know the context of your post, I'd think you were warning against the dangers of atherosclerotic plaques.

This stuff is inert. Simple as that. If the stuff starts to break down, you have the option to remove it as you please.

We all thank you for your warnings though. I certainly have heard all the warnings from apprehensive American reefers. European reefers have been using this stuff for well over a decade in their tanks so I'm not too worried. If it takes more than a decade to break down, it'll have enough corraline algae to stabilize it.

Peace,
John H.

[comatose]

and who ever heard of the European's doing anything right in the first place. hehe

[Bayliner]

Comatose,
All though I may not have as many years experience with this product as you do, I have worked with it and other similar products many times in the construction field.

I think you may have overlooked the fact that the people using this are coating it with paint. I have heard from this post that both marine grade and krylon paint has been used.

I know that when this product is painted the saturation level is high. So I do not believe that it will flake, chip, or be picked off by a ticked off crab.... So my opinion is that it is sealed and protected to the point were it should not be a concern.

[RichTG]

I did a rock wall on my 90 with foam and let it cure for 2 days, gave it 5 coats of marine enamel and let it cure for a week. Now that the tank is up and running, I can see that it will last for years. The paint totally adhered and it is rock hard. I hear the point about chunks clogging overflows, but I am too methodical with my tank to not see that coming.

[sunny03]

can post a pic of your tank

[RichTG]

I'll post a pic in the next day or two. The water is still a bit cloudy from the aquascaping, but I am super pumped about how it looks.

[RichTG]

Here is the plumbing behind the foam (the tank is on it's back)

And here is the foam with dried LR pieces and CC embedded (and 5 coats of enamel with 5 colours)

It's hard to see the detail, but The overflows are integrated ledges and the LR pieces in the wall stick out far enough to place frags on.

[rufio173]

Rich TG,

That's very nice. Eventually you'll have all kinds of things growing all over it. I'm at a little over one month now and I've got coralline algae and feather dusters colonizing the foam backdrop. It's nice.

Peace,
John H.

[jaze36]

What kind of marine paint did you use, where did you get it from, and have you ever used it before in a marine aqu.? It looks great, I like the intergration of the overflows. Please keep those pics comming as the system is more complete.

[delv]

How thick is the foam? Did you anchor it with that single pvc with the bulkhead? If so it may be a bit much additional stress on the bulkhead...may or may not be something to think about....looks good though. Did you build an area for water flow behind the foam? If so, how much space is there? The sides/corners will pull off leaving a good space for water flow/detritous to settle. You may want to think of a way to seal thos off. Did you paint it with epoxy paint? Looks good. I'm thinking about doing another tank...

d.

[RobinsonFam1]

if anyone has urchins in their tanks then i would think that this idea would not work for them. urchins actually scrape off a small layer of live rock when they eat the algae. which means that they would probably end up eating through the foam, possibly killing them and or creating mucho problems for anything else in the tank.
it is a very interesting idea, a great way to add depth to the looks of the tank and a great way to hide plumbing much like the pics above.
i may have to set up another tank to try this out!

[delv]

Why would it kill them? I assume they ingest bits of detritous that passes through them undigested. This 'stuff' is inert after it cures.

d.

[RobinsonFam1]

im just guessing since i have no experience with this foam. i guess urchins could handle it since they have the sand and rock debris that they eat but i am not sure about some other things. when something synthetic gets digested it could cause a reaction from within. like a poison in a human.

like i said i really dont have any idea until i would have to try. this is the only concern that i would have before trying it out. if and when i do this i will make sure that idont put any urchins in with it.

[RedEyeReef]

RichTG,

That looks great. What kind of enamel paint did you use for that and did you seal it with any kind of clear coat sealer?

I want to do this so bad, I wish my reef wasn't already established.

[RichTG]

I can't remember the brand name of the enamel that I used, but it did say "marine enamel" on the cans and stated that once cured, it is inert. Any 2-part marine epoxy paint will do as long as it doesn't react with the foam as it dries. Here is a pic once I threw in my LR and corals.

The foam is anchored to 3 bulkheads and actually adheres to the glass as well. I also used about 5lbs of small LR in the foam to weigh it down as well as providing a more natural look and some ledges to place frags on. To sculpt the overflows, I cut the ends off some 2L pop bottles and foamed around them. After curing, I removed them and coated inside and around each rim with frag epoxy putty. It will not erode for a long time. I also cut eggcrate screens that fit over them to keep the snails out. This setup is almost silent with 1200gph going through the 1 1/2" overflows.

As a note, before I took down my old tank, I scraped all the coraline off the back glass and kept it in a tupperware in the water until the other day when I sprinkled it all over the foam wall. I can already see that a few pieces have taken hold. Won't be long now!

[RichTG]

I forgot to mention that the foam varies from about 1/2" to 4" thick. I had to bury all the return piping and carefully sculpted around 16 holes in the abs. the water flow is excellent, it pushes through all my LR to the front and creates a nice roll on each side of the tank, while the vertical holes create extra turbulence to keep particles in suspension as long as possible. All the detritus seems to fall on the sand in each back corner where it is easy to vaccum up. The rest settles in the sump. I wish now that I was more camera happy throughout the process.
BTW, I got the paint @ Rona (HD might have it as well).

[RedEyeReef]

Great job, your tank looks unbelievable real.

[RichTG]

Thanks. My favorite part is that I don't see one piece of equipment in the tank. That is what drove me nuts about my old setup. The idea is supposed to be a window into the ocean!

[nine9d]

Hey RichTG,
Do you have a hot of the tank in your house? I would like to see the room and tank all in one. Great idea and great look.

[RichTG]

What's a hot? I will soon take some pics of the overall setup, but I haven't finished the doors on my stand yet.

[nine9d]

You don't know what a HOT is and you have a reef tank? LOL.

Answer: I have no damn clue either, HA! I think I meant "SHOT" as in pic. Thanks bud. LOL!

[rufio173]

damn you RichTG! I keep looking at your tank pic and now wish I had taken the time to paint the backdrop instead of waiting for corraline algae to encrust the foam. It's going to be a long while before it starts blending in, but I growing things off of it, so in a year it should start looking pretty natural, but yours already looks natural!

Peace,
John H.

[Hearseboy9]

Aquatic Eco-Systems sells a potable water epoxy that you might be able to paint the foam with. Please check first because I have used the epoxy , but not on foam. The epoxy might break down the foam. www.aquaticeco.com