10 gal. clam options

[danferd2002]

I have a 10 gal. with a coralife 96w power quad. Is there any type of clam that i could keep? I heard that 6000k-10000k is best, is this true. If so why do so many people keep them under their 20000k MH.

[abernier]

i dont think there are any clams that you should keep. lower light clams(dersa, squagmosa gigas) get to big in a short time span

[mbbuna]

it is true 6500k to 10k is what clams would receive in the wild. I don't know why others keep them under 20k

[danferd2002]

Darn i really wanted one, but if they get too big then i will wait until i get a bigger tank. BTW what would be the minimum tank size for a clam assuming you have the correct lighting.

[Gatorfan]

I have a small maxima in my 10g. It's been in there for just over a year now and has added probably 1/2" of new shell(it was just over an inch long when I got it).

[bencozzy]

ive had my hippopus in my ten for awhile and the growth of it is pretty slow

[mbunakeith]

i have my crocea in my tank with a 20k light and i have to admit that it was a bit of an experiment. i have heard so many good and bad things about them, i just had to try it. i am switching to a 10k soon. i dont think the clam likes it at all. he isnt dying, but he isnt flourishing either. i do love the asthetic look of the 20k bulbs though.

[Zoalander]

I have a 4 inch crocea under 150 watt DE HQI 20k bulb. He looks fine and he's attached to the bottom of my tank. I'm also planning on switching to 14k bulb in the next few months because I'm curious how it will respond.

[grimmjohn]

Originally posted by danferd2002
Darn i really wanted one, but if they get too big then i will wait until i get a bigger tank. BTW what would be the minimum tank size for a clam assuming you have the correct lighting.

IMO if you can handle the CA and ALK demands and you can easily find a new home for it after it outgrows your tank then why not?

The most famous MB7 in the world has a squamy under 32W
http://oc-creative.com/reef/PhotoDetail.asp?id=438

Or you could grow out a baby maxi since you would just have to feed it. Though their survivability is on the low side no matter what.

IMO the correct size for a clam (assuming correct lighting) is enough room to allow it to spread open and also allow you to be able to keep all the water params stable (my 6" crocea was perfectly happy in my 15 under 14K). You also should be able to allow for as much growth as is within the clams natural range...or be able to easily find a home for it (and I don't know any LFS that wouldn't gladly take a clam).

Also, where does this "nothing over 10K" come from? In't PAR, PAR? On the WWW FAQ I found "Bulb temperatures of 6,500K-10,000K are ideal." But then in the discussion they say "20k looks better too, IMO."
Sue from Clams Direct has said "Barry has written about 10k being the perfect kelvin rated halide for keeping clams. They have enough PAR value to give the most lighting needy clams, crocea and maxima, enough to grow and IMO gives the best reflection of the clams mantle coloration."

So the point seems to be to give the clams the most PAR...and all these lower Kelvin recomendations seem to be to compensate for the fact that many people may inadvertantly neglect the fact that 20Ks give less PAR but there are ways to compensate that fact..and also not all 20Ks give insignificant amounts of PAR compared to some 10Ks...

Are we saying that the clams actually NEED the lower wavelengths or just that they need the lower K lamps becuase they put out more PAR?

Just wondering,
Cheers,
grimmjohn

EDIT: P.S. Also, many sources state that feeding can compensate for lower lighting intensities...clams do eat for their entire lives...even for bigger maxies/croceas I've still seen stats somewhere that were something like 60/40%, light/feeding

[mbbuna]

when i say that clams need 6500k to 10k spectrum, this comes from the fact that the clams that we keep,in the wild come from these depth's. so when it comes to PAR there is a whole lot more to it.regardless of how much energy(PAR)that you give to somthing,if it not in the range that it can use then it's a waste.

[mbbuna]

Originally posted by mbbuna
when i say that clams need 6500k to 10k spectrum, this comes from the fact that the clams that we keep,in the wild come from these depth's. so when it comes to PAR there is a whole lot more to it.regardless of how much energy(PAR)that you give to something,if it not in the range that it can use then it's a waste.

dosen't everyone want to give the best to there friends? I do. my dog could live on french fry's, but for how long

[grimmjohn]

So you are saying that clams can't utilitize lower wavelegnths? You are right in saying that they are subjected to a fuller spectrum, but do they live shallow becuase they need the fuller specturm or becuase they need that intensity (A pubmed search didn't turn up any studies but I'm still looking)

"Clams with a brownish mantle need less light than others.
Small clams do not require as much light as large ones.
Most clams need a lot of blue light in the spectrum of the bulb you are using (more than most other animals.)"
--Albert J Thiel
Thats the only authority I can find...
I did find another paraphrasing though--"This is Daniel Knop's explanation: Under natural conditions, most of the smaller giant clam species inhabit the shallow, strongly illuminated portions of the reef. The small T. crocea, in particular, lives in extremely shallow water and is rarely found at greater depths, while T. maxima is also found in shallow water between 10 and 15 meters (30 to 50 feet) in depth ? usually not deeper. The same holds true for T. squamosa. At 15 meters (50 feet) in depth, Kelvin (K) values average 10,000 K. If we keep giant clams in aquariums with lamps that produce light in the 20,000 K range, we are keeping them under conditions that, in nature, would be found at depths of 20 to 50 meters (65 to over 160 feet) ? depths at which giant clams cannot survive (except the extremely rare species T. tevoroa, which can still be found as deep as 30 meters)."

I still have to wonder if it is spectrum or PAR...and how does anything grow under a 50,000K Iwasaki?

It's just my bet that a clam that's getting 300 PAR under a 10K XM will do just as well getting 300 PAR from a 20K XM...though I certainly could be wrong.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[grimmjohn]

We both know that 20Ks put out less PAR than 10K so it does need to be compensated for...
I don't think many people would argue that you couldn't keep a crocea/maxima pretty close to a 150W DE 10K...but yet many people say that you shouldn't keep them under a 250 DE 20K...and yet....

(Obviously the gap is even less with 10K v. 14/15K, spectrum and PAR wise, to the point that the 150/250W compensation would be unfair)

And since...
The absorption spectrum for zooxanthellae has been shown to have a broad peak in the 400 to 500 nm waveband (blue-green) and a narrow peak in the 650 to 700 (red) waveband.--Sanjay

Anyway...seems like it ought to be almost just as good...maybe better if that huge spike hits the zoo sweet spot?

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[danferd2002]

Wow i love all the replies thanks, Dan

[mbbuna]

I never said that clams don't or cant use the lower spectrums.but if they preferred a predominantly blue spectrum wouldn't they be found at these depths? there are many different kinds of zoo,and what is the sweet spot of the zoo that clams host?in all the forums that a watch, I never see anyone posting that there clams are turning brown when they have them appropriately placed with 6500k to 10k MH.there was a post 2 days ago on Clams Direct forum from some one with a 400w MH with 14k that had a Derasa that was closing and not looking good and I suggested that it was the spectrum and that they might want to change the bulb and almost right away the clam looked better.i think that it is a combination of intensity and spectrum.

[mbbuna]

that spectral plot is a bad comparison,if you go back to Sanjay's lighting page and compare apples to apples you get a different story.look at 150w xm 10k and 20k then you can see how unbalanced 20k's are

[grimmjohn]

Originally posted by mbbuna
.but if they preferred a predominantly blue spectrum wouldn't they be found at these depths?

Not nessicarily? Any wavelengths found at 30 meters must also be found at 1 meter right? As to the "sweet spot," that was a "what if?" I hear 445 nm floated around for chlorophyll...given that, then the 20K above would possably grow a green plant better or just as well.
As to the Clams Direct Forum...a "50" deep with my halide 30" off the water"! And the derasa at the bottom? Thats almost seven feet away. Of cuarse a similar wattage 10K would give more light than the 14K...but if he had moved the clam up, or his lights down (Which he began to do anyway) then I'm sure that the clam would have been fine...
Though if he had a 400W 14K 6.5 feet away from his derasa...then shouldn't my crocea that's 2 feet away from my piddly 250W 14K be starving too?

Originally posted by mbbuna
that spectral plot is a bad comparison,if you go back to Sanjay's lighting page and compare apples to apples you get a different story.look at 150w xm 10k and 20k then you can see how unbalanced 20k's are

I conceded that 10Ks put out more light, that it would take a higher wattage 20K to compare to a 10K? In that case it is apples to apples...with XMs it is a similar story

My point was that any clam that does fine at depth X from a 10K at hieght Y should do just as well at X and Y with a higher wattage 20K, thus it's not fair to say say "no 20Ks."
If someone has to put their clam 7 feet away from the light then sure, go with a 400W 10K...but if they can put the clam 3.5 feet away then the a 400W 20K should do just as well.

Cheers,

grimmjohn