Proper steps for a FW dip

[Stanton]

Will some one explain the steps do a FW dip. Thanks

[Dogbert]

Check out http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm. This is what I use.

[TerryB]

FW dips will not cure ich. What is the purpose of the dip?
Terry B

[Dogbert]

This is straight from Bob Fenner's site, the URL I attached earlier. If you have problems with the link take the last period out after the htm

Unlike many I have no space or money for a dedicated QT tank so this is my best bet besides the UV and cleaner wrasse.

"Dips and extended Baths are a technique/process for (1) excluding undesirable organisms (& possibly chemicals), and (2) administering therapeutic agents (3) via a temporary immersion of livestock in a specially prepared solution". Beauty definition, eh? I just made it up. Some further explanation of the above key terms, mechanics and rationale, all right?

(1) Basically there are differential tolerances to certain semi-toxic chemical/physical environments between the "desirable" (one's we want) and "undesirable" (the opposite), hitchhiking critters and possibly chemicals that we want to include/exclude moving livestock from one system to another.

As part of this "greatest story ever told" most of this undesirable stuff is unicellular to at least not as resistant (slimy, thick, multi-cellular) as the desirables. Bacteria, Protozoans, "worms", necrotic tissue, crustaceans, and much more can be killed, impugned, sloughed off, at least reduced in number and virulence by the appropriate administration of preventative baths.

By citing "removing chemicals" as a function of these processes, I'm referring to two phenomena: A) Dilution of transport chemicals, & B.) Rinsing of surface material, e.g. fright pheromones, toxins in the example of puffer fishes, from the surfaces of the new introductions.

Are dip/bath routines really worthwhile for all the added stress, time and cost involved? Hello; well, yes...they are Standard Operating Procedures in all professional aquatic livestock collection, distribution and rearing facilities. If you have no other capacity for prophylactic quarantine, the least you should be doing are preventative dips.

[Stanton]

I thought that was a good Idea and common practice to dip all new fish before intoducing them to the Q.T. Please correct me if I'm wrong. No need for the extra stress if this is not a good practice.

Thanks Dogbert for the link and info.

[Dogbert]

I have a brand new 180 gallon tank that is one week into cycling. It has been infected with ick by a $2.50 damsel.

I had not introduced the LFS water to the tank by placing the fish in a bowl, netting it and then placing the fish in the tank. The ick was attached to the fish somewhere. I believe that if I dipped the fish in freshwater with methylene blue the ick would've died and I would still be worry free.

I bought a cleaner wrasse and fired up my UV filter. All signs of ick are gone from the tang and damsel over the past one and a half days. The wrasse is on the tang and damsel like the LFS owner's are on the Nemo bandwagon, they never seperate.

I just found some methylene blue at an LFS in Monrovia, it was a small container. He uses Meth. blue to clean his nets and other tank to tank tools. I'm trying to find some larger portions at a chemical store for purchase.

[oama]

To FW Dips or Not to Dip....That is very often a hot and heeded debate!

The biggest problem is that there is know "set" time for dipping for all species. Some species can not take more than 30 seconds, while others can take over five minutes. When we broke down a 4000 gal system of tanks, we filled it with FW before bleaching it. It took two days to fill. Just before adding the bleach, we checked the system. And low and behold, there was a Splendid Dottyback in the sump. It was very stressed and was easily netted up. But it did survive! And that surprised all of us, b/c Pseudochromise splendens is a vertual "Canary of the Coal Mine" when it comes to poor water quality (NH4, NO2, etc.).

However, I truely believe in FW dips. With extra tanks availible and FW dips each day, you can "Out Race" any epiparasite w/out the use of "drugs"!!! Just Dip'm and place into a new/clean/sanitized tank each day. Bleach the old tank over night and then get it ready to fill again. You will drop off most of the cyst laying "adult" parasites with each dip and the fish will not be in the tank long enough for any cysts to hatch and reinfect them.

The Key is to watch the fish and to make sure that your FW is OK. By this I mean No Chlorine!!!! Many cities chlorinate the drinking water, so beware! Also, buffering the FW helps. Living in Florida, the water is so hard you can walk over it, so we don't worry about it that much. As to watching the fish....Don't say that you are going to do a 3 minute dip and walk away from the fish. Look at them! If they are near the bottom but looking up at you (with the expression of "why are you doing this to me???") then they are OK. But if you see them starting to keel over and lay on their sides...The bath is done! Get'm Out!

And The Temps should be the same as the tank they came from! 1 degree Celcius (~3 degrees F) difference is sudgested as the most variance. If you live in Chicago and it's winter, don't FW dip tropical reef fish with water right out of the tap!

Many people have hiped Hyposaline (low salinity) as a treatment for common Ich et al. But this can leed to blinding the fish and other health problems. Think about those people in Polar Bear Clubs who jump into holes in frozen lakes. It's a shock to the system, but would they survive if they stayed for a week?

The better solution IMHO, if possible, remove the fish and FW dip them daily and put into new tanks and leave the "infected" tank without fish (source of prey) for 2-3 weeks. The cysts will hatch and die off without a host.

[Dogbert]

Beautiful reply Oama. I'm relying on my 6 stage RO for the pure water.

What do you think about some stress coat in the dip?
Would that just stick to the fish and insulate the gunk. How about a second stage dip with clean filtered/UV'd tank water in it and some stress coat. After a few minutes in the second stage then place the critter in the display tank.

[TerryB]

For anyone interested I can site references to scientific trials that conclude that freshwater dips are ineffective as a treatment for ich and in another report they found that cleaner wrasse are not a cure for ich. They couldn’t even find any evidence of Cryptocaryon irritans in their stomach contents. They found that most of the attached trophonts were still alive, attached to the fish and viable after the host fish had been in freshwater for 18 hours. After these fish were returned to saltwater the trophonts later exited the fish, changed to the tomont stage and produced live tomites. If you want to read these reports for yourself then I will provide the information to find them with.
A UV light can be helpful but is more effective in a multi-tank system. The UV can prevent the spread of the parasite from one tank to another when all the water must pass through the UV before it can get into the next tank.
Freshwater dips are ineffective as a treatment for ich. If you use FW dips you will still have to combine it with another treatment. If you chose a consistently effective treatment such as hyposalinity then it will cure the disease without the aid of another treatment (i.e. FW dip). FW dips are not only highly stressful to the fish they are unnecessary to.
Another example is the transfer method which has been referred to here outracing the parasite. The transfer method consists of moving the fish every three days for a total of four moves. The empty tanks are then dried between using effectively killing Cryptocaryon irritans at the tomont stage. It is not necessary to bleach the tanks between use. The tanks should not contain substrate or rock. PVC pipe for hiding places and a sponge filter of biowheel for biological filtration will work just fine. Drying will kill the tomonts, but FW dips have nothing to do with this methods effectiveness. The problem with the transfer method is that it is too stressful for the fish and many of them will die from the stress of repeated transfers, especially if the fish are dipnetted and exposed to the air during transfer.

Quote below:
“Many people have hiped Hyposaline (low salinity) as a treatment for common Ich et al. But this can leed to blinding the fish and other health problems.�

Show me some evidence to support the idea that hyposalinity will cause blindness or other health problems when used in the correct salinity range. I think your statement here is pure speculation without any evidence to support it. If you are interested I can direct you to a lot of information that will contradict your statement. You should know that hyposalinity has been well tested in scientific trials and reported on a number of times in the scientific journals. It is a proven effective means of treating fish with ich and also an established way to alleviate the effects of many stressors such as capture, handling and transport.
Terry B

[Steven Pro]

TerryB,
I was wondering, what are your references for FW dips being ineffective? I have Colorni's "Aspects of biology of Cryptocaryon irritans, and hyposalinity as a control measure in cultured gilt-head sea bream Sparus aurata." Are there others?

All,
I do use and recommend FW dipping some fish prior to placement into a proper QT tank. I do this not to cure Ich infections, but to limit the possible infections I have to deal with. FW dips have been shown to be effective against Amyloodinium, Turbellarian Worms (the so called Black Ich), and some Flukes (Noga, 2000), while their use against Ich is certainly questionable. Utilizing a single FW dip prior to QT just limits the possibilities.

Colorni, Angelo. 1985 “Aspects of the Biology of Cryptocaryon irritans, and Hyposalinity as a Control Measure in Cultured Gilt-Head Sea Bream Sparus aurata� Diseases of Aquatic Organisms, 1:19-22, 1985

Noga, Edward J. 2000. Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment. Ames, IA: Iowa State University Press