On another bad note.....

[Eric Boerner]

Electricity bill: $497
Wife: Not pleased....

I went up $180 from last month because of a chiller and large fan on my big tank. My energy cost is $.26 per kilowatt hour for the over 200% basic rate, which most of my energy is at.

I need some help thinking of creative ways to save energy, and still be able to use that tank. So Cal Edison doesn't do the afterhours program. Although I have all my lighting and everything coming on in the middle of the night, it doesn't matter to them.

I have running on this tank:

2 - 250 watt halides 8 hours a day.
1 - 4mdsq little giant pump 24 hours a day
1 - Rio 20 hyperflow - 24 hours a day.
1 - 1/5 HP chiller. Seems to be comming on half the day. Set to 85.
1 - 250 heater. Which is not comming on at all. Set to 78.
1 - 24" shop fan blowing over the tank, on 12 hours a day.

That's it. The tank is costing me about $300 to run a month.

At this point, if I cannot reduce my electric bill down to $300 or so, I'm going to have to pack the tank up and sell everything off. Which I'm not too happy about.

Anyone have any ideas?

I was thinking of putting the close loop pump on a timer and have it come on and off every 5 minutes throughout the day. So in theory, it would only be on for 12 hours a day, but I wouldn't have a situation where the tank would get stagnant from sitting too long without circulation.

The return pump is decent, but I have it on a SCWD that restricts flow a lot and wouldn't be enough by itself really.

Question: would turning on/off the pump cost more in electricity because of frequent start-ups on the pump, and would the pump burn out in a shorter period of time because of that. Like within the next year or so?

I was also thinking of ditching all my sps and just keeping my zoanthids. I know that I can keep them effectively at around 88 degrees in the tank. Anything over 90 and they start to get cheesey. But, I still want to keep my Rose BTA and fish. Both seem fine at 85. Anyone had any experience with their BTA going sour at higher temps like 88 to 90? Hopefully that'd keep the chiller from comming on all the time.

Lastly, I was thinking of getting in some NO workshop lights and keeping those on for 3 hours, then kicking on the halides for 5. Not really the best situation for coral grow out, but I think it'll get me through the summer when energy costs are the highest.

All in all, I'm pretty bummed out. I don't want to sell everything off.

[OUinLA]

Cutting back on the halides will definately help. I would also consider raising the temp on your chiller a degree, every penny counts right now.

You could also fill some 1 or 2 liter bottles with water and freeze them. Put them in your sump and try and cool the tank as much as you can without the chiller. I'm sure you know all these tricks but it sounds like that might what you have to do. Also, if you can try refrigerating your top off water, or some of it at least. I wish i knew more but these things should help a bit.

[OUinLA]

One more thing I thought of:

You could go an entire day with out turning your halides on at all. This would mimick a cloudy/gloomy day in a reef and wouldn't harm the corals. You could do this a few times a month in addition to the other things.

[Wilafur]

eric, bummer man. i would personally reduce the photoperiod to around 4-5hrs and get a more energy efficient return pump, aren't LG's notorious energy hogs?

[gtrestoration]

In the same boat.....

I came home a week or so ago and the only mail on the counter was the electric bill...$489.00. My wife asked me if I saw it and a said... "yes, it's been preety hot and the AC almost on 24/7".

This line should get me through the summer but when it cools down ouside and the pool gets covered for the winter I'll have no other excuses.

I went through this about 6 years ago and sold everything off, at the time the bill was around $300.00. I started again about a year ago with the reef and here I am again. Either I sell more rubber to pay the Edison bill or dump it all again. I don't really see any way to lower the usage enough to really make much difference. A savings of $25 to $30 may be very possible but won't make much difference overall.

This seems a good reason to find somewhere else to live, lower power bills and cooler temps.

Steve U

[Old Yeller Tang]

Bummer Eric!

Like Steve said, you might only save about $30. The lights and chiller pose the biggest hike on the electric bill. I have my light time split right now and I noticed my chiller isn't on as much. Maybe you can get away with a 6hr photo period. Less pumps in the tank can help as well. A Gemini might be all the current you need and it doesn't create much heat like most ph's. I know Dolphins are energy efficient and don't raise the temp much. My AmpMaster only raised the temp 1 degree in my tank. My Sedra raised it almost 2 degrees.

Originally posted by gtrestoration
This seems a good reason to find somewhere else to live, lower power bills and cooler temps.
Steve U

On a bright note, maybe Arnold will do something about our energy crisis! If you decide to move to OC for cooler temps, instead of paying $300,000 for your home, you'll pay half-a-mil and your mortgage will be a few hundred dollars more and that would defeat the purpose.

Roland

[abad36]

I am in the same boat.....
my set up is in my garage and my chiller is always on.... I switched from LG to Mags and change all of my room lights from bulbs to floresents and saved about 50.00 a month... I also have a pool and AC and that dose not help.... See what energy you can save tru-out the house, not just your tank, that should make a difrences......

[gtrestoration]

your mortgage will be a few hundred dollars more and that would defeat the purpose.

Roland...

I was thinking a little further away than OC.

I'd rather pay a higher mortgage which can be called investing than paying higher energy bills which we call paying for someone elses mistakes (G.D).

But then I've lived her all my life (1956) and wouldn't know where to go. Many places look pleasing.

Steve U

[Salt Creep]

Does Cal Edison have a time-of-use rate like DWP?

Ken

[David P]

I was thinking the same thing about the pumps. If you can find a sequence or AM3000, throttle it back a bit it will pull less than 1 amp. You may look at Home depot. They have these little things that are supposed to save electricity if you plug your fridge, washer, any utility with a motor on it. I put one on my fridge a little over a year ago, and I dont know if it was coincident or what but my eletric bill droped about $15. If you have a smaller pump that is more efficent, maybe run one of those above tank power heads for in tank circulation and less electric draw. My bill is about $250 and I dont even have AC!

[jetor]

Well I just got my electric bill from SDG&E today and it is up to $220 for the month of July. Hopefully my attic fan and not running the A/C too much will help keep it there.

Tank is 220 with 3 x 400 halides, 1/3 hp chiller and an ampmaster 3000 pump.

I also recently switched from an electric clothes dryer to an gas unit which helped drop the bill a bit. No pool either.


Jasen

[o2manyfish]

Eric,

Here is a quick run down (guestimate) of your costs:

I am guessing on the consumption of some of these items:

I am also guessing a high Kw/hr rate of $ 0.27

Halides - 500w/hr = 2 kw/hr Day = .54/day = $16.20 month
LG Pump - 150w hr = 3.6 Kw day = .972 day = $29.16 month
Rio Pump - 100w = 2.4 KW Day = .648 day = $19.44 month

Chiller - Guessing its around 3.5 Amps - Which is 3500watts hr
3500w hr = 42 Kw = 11.34 day = $340 month


Fan - - 50 w = .6 kw Day = .162 day = $4.86 month


Can you find the culprit in these numbers

There may be an error of 10 to 20% in my calculations - I calculated at a line voltage of 100v -- Easier math for my weak head. But depending if you house is running from 107v to 124v will change all these values by some degree.

Dave B

[gtrestoration]

Chiller - Guessing its around 3.5 Amps - Which is 3500watts hr 3500w hr = 42 Kw = 11.34 day = $340 month

Dave B.

I don't understand how you arrived at this figure.

I have a chiller on 110V and it draws 6 amps. Ohms law says voltage x amps = approx. watts so I use 660 watts to approximate the chiller wattage.

Using the RC calculator and your $0.27 per kwh and running the chiller 24/7 (which is way off) I come up with a monthly cost of $130.00.

This is still a lot, but far, far less than your example states.

I don't have a true wattage figure on the unit here with me only the amps, so this conversion may not be correct. I just tried to call JBJ and they are all busy now.

Steve U

[Wilafur]

dave, lets say 3.5amps is what the chiller uses. that equiates to approximately 385-400 watts. not 3500 watts.

[moonpod]

I'd still say the primary culprit is the A/C though the chillers don't help.

My bill from 6/6 to 8/6 was 100 in electricity and twice that in water. Granted, I don't live in the desert, I don't have central A/C, and I don't run halides, but during that time period I had two tanks running, w/two chillers (a 1/10 and a 1/3) and about 1200w total lighting...

[gtrestoration]

I'd still say the primary culprit is the A/C though the chillers don't help.

Moonpod...

I'd have to agree with you. My house was built in 1977 and it still has the original "forced air" system with he exception of the main blower motor which was replaced a couple years ago. These older units are very inefficient when compared to today's designs.

If I can find a way to calculate the current systems usage I might replace it for next year. I'm sure that the pay back would come pretty quick.

The other problem I have is I have a fridge-freezer and an upright freezer in the garage next to the coral QT and the fish QT and another chiller for one or the other. I can't imagine where I'd keep my beer without the fridge or where I'd keep my steak & crab without the freezer. And from what I hear QT's are a must and I'm a believer.

Steve U

[moonpod]

Just a side note, check the electrical effeciency of your freezers and fridges. I used to get slaughtered in electrical bills when I lived in NY and it was due to this ancient fridge I had...your refrigeration costs go up when it gets hot and exacerbates your a/c problems ya know??

[clutchcargo]

I'm not part of SCMAS but I've got and idea. You could drop you're halides down from 8 hours to 5 hours each. Run the first one for the first 5 hours and after 3 hours start the second one.
The tank will still be lit for 8 hours but only for 2 or 3 hours will both lights be on.
You'll save money because the chiller will run less, the house AC will also run less from the reduced lighting schedule, and the cost of running the lamps will be less.
It won't be look as nice for the first 2 and last 2 hours but man $500 for electricity, wow.
Cjh

[gtrestoration]

Cjh...

$500 for electricity, wow.

This has been one of the driving forces behind the possible recall of our governor.

Steve U

[David P]

Eric, this is your new setup in the garage right? Is your garage insulated? I insulated the intire roof and one side of mine and couldnt believe the difference...FWIW

[o2manyfish]

Geez Guys,

So I thought in a Zero, it's only a zero, ain't no big deal --

So take a zero off the end too !!!!

Dave B

Besides My bill is over a grand -- So these numbers are all too small for me to worry about.

[gtrestoration]

So I thought in a Zero, it's only a zero, ain't no big deal --

You just solved all our problems!

I'll tell my wife to...

"think OUT a zero"...

when she writes the check.



Steve U

[rvitko]

Been their- I own an LFS and Electricity was killing us. Keeping the AC tuned (New filters, coil cleaning, freon charge as needed) saved us about $50 a month. Replacing all of our CSL chillers with Fritz Teclima which use roughly half the power to chill the same volume saved us about $150- figure that 3 chillers not only add electricity from consumption but from the added heat the AC has to deal with. Switching from 150w DE to 70w DE and 250w HQI DE to 150w HQI DE and from 400w Mogul to 250w DE saved us another $200. We also switched our plants from PC's and 150w HQI to 125w Mercury Vapor. It costs alot upfront but with a 4000sqft store at 11c a KWH we payed $1400 a month we now average $1000. Over a year that is quite a savings. I also plan to ditch all the GENX and CSL pumps for GRI and eliminate closed loops in favor of Tunze powerheads. I think I can knock off another $100 this way. My last advice- ditch hoods- switch to pendants and you will have a tremendous savings right their- no more trapped heat.

I am an energy miser in general and beefing up insulation, adding ceiling fans, getting a new AC if yours is old- new dual speed compressors can reach 22SEER vs older 8 and 12 SEER models. Caulking, adding weatherstripping and insulated doors. I have cut my home bill from $300 to $180 with new doors and insulated windows as well as a new AC system. I plan to insulate my attic this winter but it would be a lethal job right now.

[Old Yeller Tang]

There's some great tips there, Eric! I'm glad I didn't buy that CSL chiller afterall!
I guess it goes to show to spend the bucks upfront and save in the end. If I could only do it all over again, I would've stuck with freshwater!

Roger,

How do you compare the Tunze Turbelles with the Gemini Streams when it comes to energy consumption and heat transfer? I have the 6080 and as big as it is, it would seem to generate some heat. I know the Gemini gets really hot but the motor is outside the tank.

Thanks,

Roland

[rvitko]

Like Roland said- unfortuately you have to spend some bucks up front.

Anyone know about these radiant attic insulation barriers? It seems they are marketed mainly in California and they aren't too expensive- as a DIY project it might run me $500. Basically looks like aluminum foil you staple to the rafters to bounce heat back? Does it harm your roof? Does it even work? I like the idea of no itchy

Anyway- the 6080 uses only 21W of power so it contributes negligible heat. The Gemini uses more power and while no heat goes to the tank it does use more electricity. Don't let the size fool you- most of that is a ground strap, a thermastatic switch, and epoxy insulation as well as the electromagnet coil. Heat comes from energy use or waste should I say.