Flame Angel not Eating

steelhead97 · #1 12/02/2007, 09:40 PM

Hi guys, I'm new to this site and to reefing and could use a little help. I'm fairly new aquarist and I have established a 100 gallon tank for about 6 months. Ijust recently purchased a flame angel to add to the tank while already having a bicolor angel. It has been 2 days and the flame angel has not made an attempt to eat any of the food I've given the other fish. Ive tried myisis, brine, flakes, home made food consisting of clams, shrimp, squid, scallop. He (flame) is swimming around fine and active and even has assumed control of the tank from the bicolor angel which was the most aggressive fish in the tank. I do notice the flame nipping at algae on the rocks and side of tank but I dont know if hes getting anything into his stomach. It looks like it's just a motion he's going through because I don't see any visible food he's swalloing.

I'm thinking of putting him in a smaller tank inside the big tank and target feeding him that way. What do you guys think and is this normal? I know angels are herbivores and eaat mainly algae which is what i have plenty off. I notice he picks stuff off the sand too so I'm wondering if he's a bottom feeder in the wild. When I feed the other fish he makes no attempts to go for the food in the water column. Should I try to place food on the sand and hope he finds it? Help! Thanks

teamdulski · #2 12/02/2007, 11:17 PM

Did you ask to see him eat before you purchased him(and did he if yes)? Also have you tried any angel specific foods like Angel Formula.

steelhead97 · #3 12/02/2007, 11:24 PM

Hi team,

I did not ask to see him feed but I know that he had been at the store for about a week and he was active at the lfs and is still very activve in my aquarium but it has been only 2 days. Maybe he is still full or he's feeding on the algae off the rocks. I was told that he was being fed myisis which i've tried to no avail. Hopefully he develops an appetite soon.

USC-fan · #4 12/02/2007, 11:39 PM

Always ask to see the fish eat, any good LFS would do it with no problems.

Anyways i would pick up some Garlic from your LFS. Its sold in bottles were you just drop it on the food.

ex. Kent Marine Garlic Xtreme 1 oz.

Snowboarda42 · #5 12/03/2007, 01:14 AM

You should have quarantined him and gotten him to eat that way.

Try an algae sheet and see if he eats it. Take a rubber band and tie it to a rock.

wrott · #6 12/03/2007, 01:58 AM

Dwarf angels may not eat prep. food. I've had a cherub for 2-3 years that ignores mysis, brine, etc..It picks at LR all day.
You could try frozen daphnia, frozen cyclopeeze and baby brine (also those small Grow pellets from New Life Spectrum, and Microcrab pellets from Tetra).
Also try spirulina flakes OSI has the best IMO.
Flames will usually adapt to prepared food eventually.
I would start to worry if it stops picking or becomes thin.

350nine · #7 12/03/2007, 02:25 AM

As above, quarantine is the way to go. Your angel is probaby trying to adapt.

wrott · #8 12/03/2007, 02:54 AM

Some fish may not fare well in QT, especially if they are algae grazers or pod/plankton feeders. Just food for thought !!
I would not take it out of the display tank just to see if it will eat prepared foods.

MarkusII · #9 12/03/2007, 03:29 PM

Hello,

if able try to get frozen Cyclop Eeze - I found out that this food is taken by allmost any (new) fish...

regards

Markus

purebullet417 · #10 12/03/2007, 03:33 PM

mine wont eat any dry foods only frozen mysis

Bonebrake · #11 12/03/2007, 04:14 PM

My flame picked at rocks for a few days after being added and quickly adapted and began eating prepared foods voraciously. It eats flake food, Spectrum pellets, Tetra Micro-Crabs (cyclopeeze), frozen mysis, and frozen cyclopeeze. It still picks at rocks all day, but it gets more than its share during feeding time.

coral rules · #12 12/03/2007, 06:01 PM

I would try the garlic extreme on its food. As long as its picking at the rocks it should be fine.

Devtech · #13 12/03/2007, 06:05 PM

my flame angel first time i got him he didnt eat for about 4 days but it may not eat what ur feeding but it picks at the rocks. after 4 days he was eating anythign i put in. also how are ur corals around ur bi color? i had to take mine back to the store after it attacked my anenome, and that was before any corals were introduced so i didnt take any chance

steelhead97 · #14 12/03/2007, 08:11 PM

Thanks guys, I will try some garlic extreme and get some cyclopleze for it. I've currently got angel formula, brine, myisis, flake food, and homemade fish food brew. Very encouraging to hear that it may be normal to have 3-4 days for the fish to acclimate. The bicolor is well behaved around coral. He does pick algae off the rocks but he is so well fed that he leaves my corals alone. The bicolor is really healthy and eats like a pig but this flame is very tough and usually the bicolor asserts dominance over all newly introduce fish. This flame looks like it may take the title away from him. The biclor is bigger then the flame though not by much. I will continue to leave the flame in there then. Hopefully he starts to eat and I will take a pic of him and share. The color is just spectacular and really completes the tank. Thanks!!!

350nine · #15 12/04/2007, 02:10 AM

My theory is that if a fish is physically and emotionally healthy it will fare well in QT. IF not it does not belong in the display. It will only cause headaches later on.

r0bin · #16 12/04/2007, 10:50 AM

Aside from the fact that you did not QT this fish (which I shudder to think about) if it is healthy it will start eating anything and everything soon. I have had this happen plenty of times.

steelhead97 · #17 12/04/2007, 08:00 PM

Now in hindsight i should of QT the angel. I've never QT any fish i've bought and have really gambled when introducing new fish to the tank that is why my success rate has been poor. Ive had about 30% of the fish I introduce die on me but the ones that survive are now healthy and feeding well and fat. I do notice that the flame angel is still active and swims around picking at the rocks but again don't know if it is getting any nutrients from it but rather a motiion it's going t hrough. It has now been two full days and I have not seen it make a move towards any of the food particles during feeding. When the other fish are in a frenzy feeding away he comes out looks and then swims back into his cover. Evven the ones that fall right in front of him. How much longer do you think I should allow for him to discover his appetite before i be worried and quarantine him inside a smaller tank. Thanks

uscharalph · #18 12/04/2007, 08:07 PM

Mine eats anything I put into the tank.

mwwhite · #19 12/04/2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by uscharalph
Mine eats anything I put into the tank.

Ours too.

bigdeeezy · #20 12/04/2007, 09:45 PM

mines also eats everything but mostly grazes on the live rock all day

350nine · #21 12/04/2007, 10:31 PM

Get some live brine shrimp in there and walk away. You can peek but let him eat on hisown. Sometimes they like a moving target(live prey) to get started. Once it gets going you can switch to other foods.

carlso63 · #22 12/04/2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steelhead97
Now in hindsight i should of QT the angel. I've never QT any fish i've bought and have really gambled when introducing new fish to the tank that is why my success rate has been poor. Ive had about 30% of the fish I introduce die on me but the ones that survive are now healthy and feeding well and fat. I do notice that the flame angel is still active and swims around picking at the rocks but again don't know if it is getting any nutrients from it but rather a motiion it's going t hrough. It has now been two full days and I have not seen it make a move towards any of the food particles during feeding. When the other fish are in a frenzy feeding away he comes out looks and then swims back into his cover. Even the ones that fall right in front of him. How much longer do you think I should allow for him to discover his appetite before i be worried and quarantine him inside a smaller tank. Thanks

Not to jump on you or get "preachy" but if you indeed "have had 30% of the fish I introduce die" something is very wrong...

That's almost a third of all the fish you get are not surviving past a few days or weeks...

If you are buying all your fish at the same LFS try a different store. In fact I would go further and say don't shop at that store anymore.

If you have bought from a few different LFS then it is probably either 1 of 2 things:

1) Your acclimation procedure

2) Something about your tank condition is not right

It will usually be the second one.

Is your SG between 1.023 - 1.026? Is it stable or does it fluctuate?

Is your temp somewhere between 75 - 81F, with no more than a 3 - 4 degree "swing" between the highest it gets and the lowest?

Is your pH stable between 8.0 - 8.3?
dKH between 7 and 11 and stable?
nH3 and nO2 always read "0"?
is your nO3 less than 40 ppm?

How often do you change water and how much?

As far as the Flame I would not reccommend trying to "quarrentine" him now. If he had any disease it will already be in the main tank by now.

I do agree that it would not be highly unusual for the fish to take up to a week or so to start eating well. And, an otherwise healthy fish cannot "starve" in a week or 2... currently I have a male Banggai Cardinalfish who has not eaten for approx. 25 days because he is carrying eggs in his mouth; he is fine and looks OK even after going without food for almost a month...

if your Flame dies inside of a week or 2 without ever feeding, it was NOT lack of food that killed him.

steelhead97 · #23 12/05/2007, 01:49 AM

Carlso,

Thank you for your insight and analysis. The fish that died on me did in deed come from teh same fish store. I continue to shop there because of they have it for usually a 50% discount from other shops. I think a number of things could have contributed to their death including my inexperience in acclimating them as well as less then perfect water parameters. Currently the tank parameters are all within the ranges you've provided and all fish in the tank are free of visible disease and feeding well. Your comment about a fish not able to starve itself to death in a week or two is reassuring to me so I will continue to monitor him. I will try your recommendation of putting in some live brine shrimp to entice him.

r0bin · #24 12/05/2007, 01:08 PM

Yes the brine shrimp are a good idea. We have all been where you are, live and learn. At least you are being grateful for the advice people are giving you. Some people go off. Anyway, your fish sounds healthy to me. Do walk away (hide)when you give the food. Often when we are near the tank is scares the newcomers. I think it will start eating soon.

steelhead97 · #25 12/06/2007, 03:45 PM

Guys,

I saw some white salt like growth on the body so I took the flame out and put him in a makeshift tank. I took a live rock from the tank as well as some of the water for the qt tank. I now have flame, live rock and a powerhead in the qt. It turns out the things i thought were ich was sand because it has now fallen off him. Do I need to include live sand into the qt or am I okay? Hopefully he will now eat without anybody around